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Hello,
For a couple of days ago I buyed a second hand Yashica MG-1 camera and I now have a problem to find a battery for it. According to instruction manual it need a 5.6V mercury battery like Mallory TR164, Mallory PX32, Eveready E164 or Ucare 164. Those batteries can't be buyed here in Sweden. According to yashica's battery chart it should go with a PX32A battery from Duracell but I can find it anywhere. Does anyone know if there is replacement battery that I can use with my MG-1 camera?
Thanks in advance
Darren
Don't know the MG-1 but I suspect it's the same as the Yashica electro RF's, battery-wise.
As for these, the original battery can be replaced by any battery combination with about 4.5 to 6 volts, as long as it fits into the battery compartment.
As the PX 32 were *huge* (made of 4 1.4 volt cells) almost everything you can buy today will be too small. Just get a PX 28 Alkaline (readily available, at least here in Germany) and make yourself some kind of an adaptor out of conductive material (I for one use household aluminum foil). Or go to http://www.yashica-guy.com and buy an adapter.
HTH
-- Erik
I too have been looking for batteries to replace
mercury batteries which are no longer available
in the U.S. I found an Energizer package, labelled
"size 675" which contains 6 zinc/air batteries of
1.4 (1.35?) volts each. They are in a circular dispenser for hearing aids. four of them in series should be 5.6 (5.4) volts. I hope this helps.
Zinc-air cells are an excellent replacement for mercury cells. They have the same rock-solid voltage as the mercury cell, and the 675 will actually put out even more current, if called upon to do so, than the 625 mercury. This is of no use if the cell only operates a meter, but can be handy in cameras where the cell (or battery) also does other things like operate shutter release solenoids.
The down-side of the zinc-air cell is that, once the sticker is removed to admit air, life of the cell is only about two months, regardless of electrical drain. But I don't find that objectionable because they are available at almost every drug store for $1 each.
The zinc-air cell has a stable voltage of 1.4 compared with the mercury 1.35. That will cause a very slight difference in meter reading, about 1/2 stop or less. The Wein cell is a version of the zinc-air which is said to have 1.35 volts and a somewhat longer life, but at considerably greater cost.
I would recommend four zinc-air cells, providing exactly 5.6 volts. You will have to devise a way to support the four smaller cells.
Hi,
I found, as did many posters, that MG1 (and GSN alike) are not so critical on battery voltage as long as it's more than 5 volts or so. Having said that, I followed what Mak Kar Yan ( one of the writers for "featured articles" in kyphoto) had done: roll up four LR44 alkaline cells like that for a stack of coins. One can use double-sided tape between paper layers to make the casing reusable. At one end, put on a cap which is made up of the cell (round) blister packaging cap ( of course after enlarging the hole to allow the negative cell terminal to make contact with that of the camera battery compartment, but not too large so as to provide insulation for the positive cell casing). At the other end, drop in a coil spring of the correct size. I found that the spring inside the pump of a pint-size liquid soap dispenser fits perfectly, or someone can always make one from a paper clip. This is a really cheap DIY battery pack as Chinese-made LR44 cost only about one USD for a ten-pack in Hong Kong.
The CR123 battery is very common as it is used in a number of P&S models.
This is the correct diameter but a little short - so some kind of extension will have to be made - not too difficult.
They have a shelf life of 10 years and are designed for cameras with a larger current draw than the GSN. So, they will last a long time.
Allan
Thanks... It seams that easiest way is to buy Yashica Guy's adapter and I think I'll do that to be on the safe side. However I'll try yours suggestion to because it will be fun if I make it work...
Darren
Just two warnings:
- the CR123 battery discussed above has 3 V but for the MG-1 as for the Electro 35 GSN a voltage in the 6V range is required.
- the 1.4V cinc air cells should be a good replacement for mercuries but they may not be stacked. The little holes which are reqired for the air exchange would be covered and those cells would not give the required voltage and current.
With respect to preponents of the zinc-air battery solution I warn that these are not a good choice for cameras. They exude corrosive gasses via the breather hole and will eat away the compartment contacts and wiring.
Both electrically and physically I have configured an easy solution for this 5.6 mercury cell problem.
Complete with illustrated instructions I shall post it on this forum within the next few days.
Stuart Willis
Sunny Queensland, Downunder.
ethos@uq.net.au
Hi Stuart,
That would be really nice... I allready have ordered Yashica Guy's adapter but I'll try your solution to.
Darren
Regarding Stuart Willis's warning about zinc-air cells exuding corrosive gasses - I don't think so.
Air enters a zinc-air cell through the vents, and the oxygen causes a reaction which converts zinc paste, loaded into the cell at manufacture, to zinc oxide which releases electrons. The only by-product is water, which is absorbed and doesn't exit the cell.
Corrosive gasses from a cell used to power hearing aids? Again, I don't think so.
With sensibilities seemingly irked Mr. Tobin has sent me a stream of vexatious contentious emails pursuant to my earlier posting.
The facts are that zinc-air cells are in a continuous state of discharge from the moment the air-hole is exposed to commission the cell. In hearing aids they have a practical service life of but a few days but will in any event completely flatten in approx' 18 days even with no useage.
In camera use they are conventionally in situ for several months with intermittent use. In whatever application a zinc-air cell left in situ in a dischanged state produces results which need to be seen to be believed.
Also, the contacts in hearing aids are inevitably gold or silver plated are are less susceptible to corrosion that those used in cameras.
My posting was intended to be helpful but it is of course the prerogative of those who hold contrary views to test for themselves and wreck their cameras.
Zinc-air cells are not suitable for use in cameras designed for mercury cell chemistry. This closes off my contribution but I shall shortly, as earlier pledged, post the proper solution to the 5.6v mercury cell replacement/substitute.
Best all
Stuart Willis
ethos@uq.net.au
My posting seems to have irked the sensibilities of Mr. Tobin in that it expresses a contrary view to that of his preceding post. And for this I am assailed with his vexatious and contentious direct emails. Not good enough. Please confine your postings to the newsgroup, Mr. Tobin.
For others:
The practical service life of a zinc-air cell in hearing-aid application is but a few days whereas in camera use the cell typically sits there for months with intermittent use.
The zinc-air cell discharges continuously from the moment the air-hole is exposed and will flatten completely in approx' 18 days. Some readers maybe unaware of this and logically regard their recently inserted zinc-air cell as new and little used. And that is the dangerous misunderstanding.
Irrespective of the application, the results of leaving an exhausted zinc-air cell in situ have to be seen to be believed. Hearing aids use gold-plated or silver-plated contacts which are less susceptible to corrosion that the tinned copper variety found in cameras.
For the above reasons the zinc-air cell is not suitable for camera application. My posting was intended to be helpful but it is of course the prerogative of any user to put this to the test and wreck his camera.
As earlier pledged I shall shortly post a proper and viable solution to the perennial problem of 5.6v mercury battery non-availability.
Best all
Stuart Willis
ethos@uq.net.au
OK, here are my vexatious and contnetious direct emails to Mr. Willis. Judge for yourself.
-------------------
Stuart,
Your statement that zinc air cells exude corrosive gasses is alarming. If that is true, would it not also be the case for hearing aids, for which zinc are cells are intended?
Can you give me more information to substantiate this?
Thanks,
Pat Tobin
------------------
Mr. Willis'reply began with "Oh - It's true alright." There were no corroborating facts or
information presented that did not rely on acceptance of that premise. I replied:
------------------------
Stuart,
I am still doubtful of your claim that zinc-air cells emit corrosive gasses. Can you offer some proof such as the chemical reaction that would have such a result?
Pat Tobin
--------------------
Vexatious and contentious, indeed.
And the last one:
-----------------
Stuart,
You have given no meaningful answer to my questions at all. You simply said, "Oh, it's true all right."
Your following statements were all predicated upon acceptance of, "Oh, it's true all right.
A statement as potentially alarming as the one you made should be backed up with facts and an explanation.
Pat Tobin
Oh Dear Mr. Tobin .......
You really are quite deceitful in defending the indefensible, are you not?
You write to this newsgroup:
Quote:
Mr. Willis'reply began with "Oh - It's true alright." There were no corroborating facts or
information presented.
Unquote.
Following that beginning line I gave you 24 lines of detailed information with all courtesy and objectivity. End of subject. Please don't direct email me again. This is arguably the best photo newsgroup on the internet and I will not be party to your vexatious ramblings.
Stuart Willis
Those lines consist of opinions you have posted to the list, and do not offer proof or substantiation. They are predicated entirely upon acceptance of "Oh - it's true alright."
I have posted an abbreviated statemnet of the chemical reaction that takes place in a zinc air cell. The idea that an energy cell which is used in hearing aids produces corrosive gasses, even in depletion, is absurd.
OK GUYS!!
ENOUGH! SHAKE HANDS AND MAKE-UP!
Guys...you are both right. In the short term the only "by-product" of the chemical reaction is water...however...and it is a big however... however, after the cell is depleted beyond its voltage useability the internal mass continues to grow (ZnO) and potentially erupting and spewing nasty electrolytic substances. Some are solid, some liquid and some gaseous. This may take only a week or so after depletion.
So...in a hearing aid situation the user changes the cell often and only the water is emitted. He HAS to change it often or give up hearing.
But in a camera situation the cell can remain in the camera for weeks or months after energizing and depletion. The cell can burst and...well, we've all seen burst batteries. As mentioned previously, this bursting can manifest as solid, liquid or gas depending upon the construction of the cell.
If a person removes the zinc-air battery from the camera before total depletion there should be no contamination damage. But if not...
For the main chemical reaction take a look at:
http://data.energizer.com/batteryinfo/application_manuals/pdfs/zinc_air.PDF
Ok, are we all friends again?
Henry
Henry, with all due respect, I hope you are not making an analogy with regular carbon-zinc cells which, after depletion, leak nasty stuff. But old fashioned carbon-zinc cells contain a slightly acidic electrolyte of ammonium chloride and zinc chloride, which causes the afterlife leakage and swelling. Zinc-oxide cells have no electrolyte. When depleted, the original zinc gel has been convereted to zinc oxide. There's nothing harmful about zinc oxide - it is sometimes used as a skin salve.
Folks, I'm not arguing for the sake of argument. There are some, myself included, who feel that, all considered, the zinc-air cell is the best of the mercury replacement alternatives. If there is a serious problem I want to know about it. But I want hard, scientific information with proof.
Pat, a battery has to contain some kind of electrolyte. Otherwise the reaction would be so slow as to not generate a perceivable current.
The Energizer link I gave in a previous message says the electrolyte is KOH...a very corrosive and caustic compound. Anything with Potassium is potentially volatile. Here is another link giving some working parameters:
http://www.che.com/ceextra/sep2000/0900caustic.htm
Nobody is disputing the fact that zinc-air cells work fine for cameras. The problem with them is that their usable life is far shorter than what the normal layperson expects so the cell is left in the camera and the cell's internal formation of ZnO grows until it bursts the nylon seals and caustic gas, etc is exhausted into the camera. And the KOH loves to attack copper.
And you are right in that zinc-air's flat voltage range is excellent as a mercury replacement. But one should be well versed in the drawbacks of its very likely misuse in a camera.
Btw, for zinc to be a battery it needs carbon. Both the zinc and carbon are in a catalytic paste that the oxygen activates.
It is not well known but the original zinc-air cells used mercury oxide as an electrolytic catalyst.
Batteries and chemistry are fascinating. Remember way back when Nissan's were called Datsun's...and ALL Datsun's rusted very quickly? I used the old battleship trick of the consumable electrode and prevented my F10 from crumbling to rust right in the driveway by changing its polarity. Sometimes I regret switching from a chemical engineering major to mechanical. Nowadays chemical pays much better. Oh well, I'm retired anyway.
Henry
Henry - When I wrote my previous I had a printout of your first ref - pages from the Energizer Battery Application Manual - in front of me. I just missed the mention of the KOH electrolyte; I aplogize for my erroneous statement that the zinc-air cell does not use an electrolyte.
KOH is certainly caustic. However, there is the question of whether it exists in sufficient quantity and remains sufficiently active to cause problems in an exhausted zinc-air cell.
Therefore, I have devised an experiment. I have a zinc-air cell which became exhausted in a camera two weeks ago. I have placed the cell in the bottom of a small hard plastic bottle. The vents are facing upward. On top of the cell, directly over the vents, I have placed a short length of soft copper wire. This should approximate a typical battery chamber - the cell and the wire are in close proximity in a small, confined space, the top of the bottle open, 1-3/4" from the cell and wire. I will check this every few days and at the first sign of anything at all unusual happening, I will report to the list.
Pat,
Super, sounds like a great experiment! If you regularly use zinc-air cells in your cameras, you might try several of these tests concurrently. That way you'd get good quantitive info too.
Definitely keep us updated.
Henry