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Docrock17
Tinkerer
Username: Docrock17
Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 24, 2010 - 11:31 pm: | 
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Hello,
I am extremely new to the camera repair world, so I've been trying to look on this forum and countless other sites for some basic info and advice to maybe answer my question, but I couldn't really come up with a conclusion that satisfied me.
I just recently brought a Yashica Mat 124 back to life by flushing the shutter and shutter mechanisms (gears/springs) with lighter fluid (Ronsonol) three or four times and working the mechanism like crazy, then blowing it dry with a can of dust removal air. Now it works like a charm and I'm super happy, but since I flushed it out with Ronsonol, I was wondering whether I needed to replace the lube I destroyed. I've seen some "no lubrication is fine and/or preferable" posts here and there but others that insist small amounts are necessary. I'm just wondering who is right? Does it depend on my camera? It seems like it's doing A-OK without anything in there but I wanted to make sure I'm not committing a CLA crime by not re-lubing it before reassembly.
Thanks!
(Also, if anyone has any recommendations on how best to glue the leatherette back on, I realize it's an unrelated question but I would appreciate any advice. My knee-jerk is crazy glue, but I am worried about wanting to remove it in the future) |
Greyscale
Tinkerer
Username: Greyscale
Post Number: 29
Registered: 07-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 24, 2010 - 11:57 pm: |
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My personal recommendation on the lubrication is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I'm sure others will differ.
Don't glue the leatherette back on with crazy glue. Use a good contact cement like Pliobond. Try not to use any cyanoacrylate anywhere on your camera if you don't absolutely have to. |
Nickon51
Tinkerer
Username: Nickon51
Post Number: 138
Registered: 05-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 07:20 pm: |
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If you are going to flush the shutter then I believe the protocol is to run it dry.
To properly clean and lube the shutter, you really need to dismantle it completely and lube as you put it back together.
As you are new to camera repair, I would not use your Yashica Mat as a test bed. Start practising on another leaf shutter, one that doesn't matter if you get it back together or not.
Cheers
Greg |
Marty
Tinkerer
Username: Marty
Post Number: 85
Registered: 11-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 25, 2010 - 08:02 pm: |
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I only work on antiques, but I go with the don't oil it crowd. If you DO oil it, it only takes a TINY amount on the bearings or pivots. Any oil that works it's way between the shutter blades will freeze them up like water between panes of glass. |
Mareklew
Tinkerer
Username: Mareklew
Post Number: 218
Registered: 03-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 26, 2010 - 02:03 pm: |
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The rule is simple: do the least damage.
If you start with an old, long time not serviced shutter, the situation is at its worst: the shutter is dirty, the lubricant dried up, crud and worn-off material is acting like a polishing compound.
This puts you at the first decision:
- flush it
or
-tear it down and clean it right.
While it might be obvious that the second option is the way to go, it is not necessarily so. If the repairman isn't skilled enough (say, we are talking DIY and the tinkerer is still a newbie), a thorough flush with a lot of naphta might just be a safer idea.
The next question is: to lube, or not to lube.
Every shutter has its lubrication points, seldom any was really meant to be run dry. Lubrication helps against wear. Lubrication, however, attracts dirt and is not a permanent solution - lubricants dry up, oxidize, creep. You have to ask yourself: how much wear will the camera see? Over how long period of time?
If you repair the camera to run a roll of film through it once in a year, just skip lubrication - the dry shutter will preserve better and won't stick the first time you use it after a long rest. Just make sure you never touch any steel parts with your bare hands after solvent wash and make sure it's all really dry, or you are facing corrosion.
If you put it together to run a hundred rolls per year, however, consider where and with what to lube, to minimize wear and maximize life.
The bad news is, that many a camera has a shutter that is worn past reliable operation, so even clean they will run slow. In such cases little lubricant may help the retarder/escapement assembly come to speed.
I am yet to find, what to lube activator rings, if anything. Graphite is often suggested, but it's abrasive lube and these rings are soft metal, so it's like running a motor on nitro. Not necessarily long-life solution, even if a fast one.
The last question is, whether to attempt adjustments. There are shutters that go together in a defined way, that will determine the speeds. One can assume, that a factory-good shutter in this class should reach its best performance after cleaning alone, and it is quite often the case. Shutters that run slow after cleaning usually either weren't cleaned properly, or are worn (main spring weak, activator ring worn). One has to remember, that the mechanical design of the shutter is based around the assumption, that this shutter needs a well-defined time to open and close. As the first sign of wear is exactly the open-and-close time going up, there's no proper way to compensate for this. If your shutter is perfect on 1s - 1/15s, and worse and worse upwards, then there isn't much that can be done. If you plan on using the camera intensively, you'd best pick one speed, get it right and stick to it. My favorite 6x6 TLR has a shutter that I cleaned and adjusted so, that 1/125s is close (actually at 1/110s) and 1/30s is perfect. All other speeds are more, or less off, and anything faster than 1/125s is way off, but the shutter simply refuses to open-and-close as fast as it should - this camera has seen simply too much use.
Then, there are shutters like these of Rollei (Compur) that once apart need to be adjusted from ground up again. Think twice before disassembly...
Marek |
Wonloo
Tinkerer
Username: Wonloo
Post Number: 11
Registered: 07-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 27, 2010 - 04:52 pm: |
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I wish I had read this comment before I started working on the Compur or Compur copy shutters. The first camera I worked on was a Zeiss Contaxflex I SLR with Synchro-Compur. I managed to disassembled the shutter blades and put them back together but never managed to adjust the timing correctly. The linkage on the camera and the slow aperture were another story. I now shot the camera at 1/125 or slower and aperture larger than f11. The pictures came out from the Tessar were very sharp. |
Olympfix
Tinkerer
Username: Olympfix
Post Number: 38
Registered: 05-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 27, 2010 - 11:38 pm: |
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Brave person, Wonloo, starting with a Contaflex!!!!
After thirty years in the repair industry-mostly Olympus, I wouldn't start with a complex shutter like the Synchro-Compur, but at least today, we have digital cameras to take detailed close-ups of all stages prior to doing anything. Rule number 1--- work out what the bit you're about to undo actually does. Take photos, or make detailed notes. Note gear timings. Watch for errant springs. Don't assume another part will fit .. (OM 1s changed subtly over the years, including a delightful trap under the meter where they increased the number of teeth on a gear by one, and reduced the diameter, so other bits didn't match!!.)... Practice, and have fun!! |
Wonloo
Tinkerer
Username: Wonloo
Post Number: 12
Registered: 07-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 28, 2010 - 05:12 am: |
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Bruce, you are right on all counts. I didn't know what I got into before I started. When I realized that, the camera was already in pieces. It was three Contaflex cameras (they all have different problems) and 8 months later before I could put them all back together in working order. The first one (which has 9 aperture blades and the others have 5) still have the common slow aperture closing problem that I cannot resolved. May be that's why they changed it from 9 to 5 blades. During those 8 months, I had made all the mistakes that were mentioned in this forum. After the Contaflex and Compur, other leaf shutter RF and TLR cameras are so much easier to work on. It does worth the pains after all but I will not recommend it to new comers. |
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