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newindustar
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 04:48 pm: | 
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I received a very nice like new S2 with Stuck advance lever and fallen off rf mirror. Using all the great links mentioned here and via Google I jumped in. I never put a battery in. The irises from both front and back were completly closed.
1. Top off and retreived unglued mirror, ok for present.
2. The second silver retainer ring to expose the front element was extremely difficult to remove. I had to use a hammer and screwdriver in the slots. I finally was able to remove it and the front element but in the process the front barrel got knocked past some stop and spun around shearing the meter wires where they go down inside the shutter. I also knocked the little brass post off what M. Feuerbacher,
http://feuerbacher.net/photo/frame.html?repair/KonicaAutoS2/KonicaAutoS2.html~Main
calls the cocking rack, the circular disk with all the ramps and grooves. I was able to repair the cocking rack post.
Next I did the Ronsonol moisten from the front being careful to not put so much it would drip onto the real lens element and I did get the shutter to fire a couple of times. I did so by giggling the self timer and other bits in the mechanism. At one point I was seeing both ireses opened a bit. Unfortunately it is all closed again and the advance is stuck again. The mechanism looks absolutely corrosion free.
Questions:
1. The front iris, is it the shutter or the apeture?
2.Are there only two sets of irises, one visible from the front and the other from ther rear?
3. On a good camera when you rotate the apeture ring should you be able to see the iris open? My apeture ring does not seem to cause any visible movent in the shutter mechanism or iris, should it?
4. The meter wires got clipped at the level of the face of the shutter where I cannot repair them. How would I access them at a deeper level to replace/repair them?
How should I continue with the shutter, remove it ? I hate to take off the leathrette because it is all in such good condition.
It is true that if you had cocked it while in auto you need a battery to release it? Could that have been the problem all along? I know people say you don't need a battery but under that one scenario of cocking when in auto, some has said you need a battery to release it. ??
Help, I really want to fix this beauty! |
newindustar
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 01, 2006 - 09:43 pm: |
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problem and answered many of my own questions. I got the shutter working again. It was a combination of stuck blades asd the self-timer was causing problems. I R and R the self-times, it just pulls out, and then adjusted where the tab has to index into the slot to allow the shutter to release. I wonder how many of them get stuck for a mis-aligned self timer? I also resolved my iris qiestions.
Right now I have the bottom off trying to figure out how to thread new meter cell wires. It looks as if one must remove the battery holder. I removed the brass screw but it is still tight. Any advice on the meter re-wire? |
newindustar
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 03, 2006 - 09:48 pm: |
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Well I am down to the meter cell rewire. I am stuck at one point now. My meter cell wires sheared off at the level of the aperture ring. I have the whole camera apart with the shutter seperated. I need to run new sensor wires but I can’t access the tiny shutter channel the wires run through unless I can remove the aluminum aperture adjustment ring from the shutter assembly. It is loose and I cannot see anything restricting its removal but I can’t take it off. Unfortunately where the wires pass through the shutter it is not a straight hole but runs through a tight channel first for about an inch before they exit out the back. I even thought of drilling a new hole straight through but it seemed I’d run into problems there. Have you any idea how to remove the aperture ring from the shutter?
Thanks |
WernerJB
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 04, 2006 - 02:58 am: |
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On the one hand you say you want to restore "the beauty", on the other you consider drilling new holes, I guess this ambiguity in your articles is why there have been no responses to your questions. My advice is, as all you need to know to restore/repair your auto S2 is registered there, study Kar Yan Mak's Konica Auto S1.6 Repair Adventure in this forum's archives, Mick Feuerbacher's source of info on the auto S2 overhaul(you mention this one in your first input) and Daniel Mitchell's excellent repair tips (http://www.daniel.mitchell.name/cameras/index.html) for the shutter. If these sources do not help you to solve your S2 nothing probably will, regards, W. |
Dan Mitchell
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 04, 2006 - 08:36 pm: |
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There is some trick to getting that aperture ring off. I think you have to unscrew a stop post on the back and then rotate the ring to where some cut-outs will pass over the tabs. (This is from memory, but it's something like that.) |
newindustar
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 01:40 pm: |
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Well I certaintly don't want to drill any holes . This would not be an issue if that silver barrel ring had not been so frozen. This is also my first camera repair and I don't have the special tools so I don't see why my queries should go unanswered. Isn't that the point of a forum, to learn and assist?
Thanks very much Dan for that link. I had found that as well but the shutters shown seem to have their apeture rings off already with out any discussion of how it was done. I spent a lot of time inspecting it a tried removing a few screws but did not discover the trick. If I can solve this one issue getting that ap. ring off allowing me to thread new wires properly I should be able to complete the job sucessfully.
The only other thing that concerns me is that the apeture has been very well degreased followed up by 99% isopropyl. When wetted it runs very fine but when dry it hangs at wider than mid opening. I have found others saying the apeture is a weakness even after the shutter has been successfully cured. Has anyone been succesful with 99% isopropyl followed by graphite power?
Thanks |
newindustar
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 01:48 pm: |
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I took another look Dan -
I removed the same stop screw I had tried before and the one you referenced and it worked. I guess I had not found the index the first time. Hopefully I will not run into anymore road blocks. I would appreciate feedback on the apeture hang/lube.
Thanks |
WernerJB
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 07, 2006 - 02:09 pm: |
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This shutter and especially the aperture mechanism are not usually lubed, but run dry. If yours do not, they are most probably not clean enough. Although I also use isopropyl my favourite cleaning agent is lighter fluid, because whenever some residue is left on glossy surfaces it can be wiped off without any problems.
Take my advice and stay away from graphite powder and any liquid oil like WD 40 (thin watch oil for critical points being the only exception). |
newindustar
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 01:45 pm: |
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Quick update -
Thanks Werner for convincing me the apeture and shutter were not really clean despite all the Ronsonol etc. I am in a commercial printing/digital imaging enviroment. I spied a gallon can of commercial anti-static film cleaner called "Film Kleen" from Anchor/Fujifilm. I submerged the entire shutter and a soon a lot of debris washed out including granular matter. This stuff is Heptane and Isopropanol. Part of the advantage may have been the submerging but this stuff works very well. I can't guarantee what it attacks and what it does'nt but it works very well in cleaning. I have a completly free running shutter and apeture now.
I have also run new sensor cell wires. The samllest 24 gauge in Radio Shack was far too fat to fit through the hole. I had a bad Cat 5 network patch cable and opened it up using one of the twisted pair. It was a very tight fit in the shutter hole but it made it. It has a nice tough insulation and is stranded.
I almost came to a halt again because somehow the springs operating the brass arms and catches behind the shutter were loose. It was difficult to figure out how to re-arm them and they were so small and my eyes and hands are not so nimble. Likely I knocked them loose handling the shutter so much. I'd suggest unsoldering the orange flash wire from the start so the back side of the shutter does'nt have to be dragged around if you have to go in deep. I finally managed to get the springs re-armed in the right place. Avoid disturbing these tiny wire springs at all costs! I also found loose springs on the counter and the frame line adjuster. I am still trying to figure out the frame line adjuster spring placement.
I have the shutter back in the body working fine. I found I had to tighten and loosen the shutter retaining ring a few times to avoid causing a binding on the shutter but it has settled in now and works freely.
I have a question on the operating theory of this camera. It is shutter priority so in Automatic mode there must be some solenoid (I don't see one)to control the apeture I am gussing. How does this automatic apeture control mechanism work?
Thanks |
WernerJB
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 03:06 pm: |
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There is a needle-trap light meter mechanism under the top cap of the camera. In broad daylight resistance of the LDR (CdS cell, Electric Eye, etc) is low, with a battery installed the needle of the meter will incline towards the end of the meter dial, resulting in a small aperture (f 11 or 16) "catching" the needle in that position if you push the release button. If this one travels downward, a lever transmits the meter's readings to a ring which drives the aperture leaves (you named them rear iris in your first article) in the shutter housing. This mechanism, if properly installed, can be seen open and close according to the light conditions in Auto mode with the shutter cocked when you push the release button observing everything from the film chamber. The shutter will not fire if there is not enough light (needle won't move and indicate underexposure), aperture will fully close: f 16, because no incoming light can be used to find a suitable exposure speed/aperture combination, meter behaves as if no battery was installed) or too much light (needle in the red overexposure area). |
newindustar
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 03:58 pm: |
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Well if I am reading you right the meter assembly itself has enough mechanical power to drive the apeture directly via linkage.I guess that's my concept of the solenoid. I can see where that entire apeture mechanism must be very free!
I find my self too far ahead of myself however speaking of electronics. I wish I was there already.
I have another mechanical issue. I am assembling the front barrell. The brass plate that locks to the wriggle pin does not seem to have anything to index (lock) itself to the shutter assembly. There are no index pins on the brass plate. There are two small empty holes besides the wire hole.
After I tighten the wriggle nut to a point where there is no barrell slop but without binding the shutter ring, I find that when turning the shutter the black barrel turns with it. The result is the wriggle nut, the black barrell, and the brass plate all turn together which will cause the meter cell wires to get cut (again). Is it solely the friction of the wriggle nut against the center of the brass plate along with the locking cam screw that is supossed to immobilize the brass plate? I am afraid I may have sheared some indexing pin but I do not see not indexing hole on the shutter assembly so perhaps not . I suppose it is possibly that wriggle nut should be very tight to lock the brass plate but if I go so tight I will make the shutter to hard to turn. Any idea where I am off? |
WernerJB
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 08:15 am: |
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What you assume about the power of the meter is not right!
All I am saying is that the meter needle travel allows a certain aperture to form when you push the button by making the mechanism align and stop at the right point, that's all.
Apart from battery, meter and L(ight) D(ependent) R(esistor) there is no electronics at all inside the camera, just take off the top cap and find out for yourself!
The index pin you are looking for is clearly visible in M. Feuerbacher's last photo (green arrow, there is another such pin on the cocking rack for speed selection in the same picture at one o'clock position close to the self-timer lever).
I once repaired an Auto S 1.6 where parts of the lens barrel had been (accidentally?) glued together by an ignorant previous owner, so during disassembly I broke the pin. Unfortunately it is indispensable for the proper functioning of the camera (you describe why this is so), but a repair is rather difficult, not to mention that you need spares from a junker! (It is possible to solder a provisional pin of the right size to where it belongs if spares are scarce, but please note that this is definitely no job for the inexperienced, as it is not very likely that everything goes back together properly again in the end !!!) |
newindustar
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 01:49 pm: |
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Thanks for a better understanding of the Auto Apeture. It did seem unlikely there would be enough leverage to affect the apeture directly.
I have some good news on the electricals. It was all dead but I fixed it by seperating the halves of the battery box and the cleaning the little contact dimple which was grey from oxidation. The meter system came to life after that and some resoldering. The resistor in the front ring for the meter cell is working as well.
I located the hole for the missing index pin. I don't have any spares nor access to any without buying another one from ebay which I want to avoid.
The larger brass pin on the cocking rack that indexes with the aluminum shutter speed ring I found when I started this. I was able to repair that by peening with a small center punch and it seems very solid.
Is there a third pin to index with the second small hole in the brass plate?
Well without another govenor plate with pin I will have see if there is another way to lock that brass plate. My ideas for a work-around thus far have run into problems. |
WernerJB
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 03:28 am: |
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I do not know of a third pin. As usual among tinkerers you will somehow have to find a solution and then tend to like this camera dearly, not the least because you are the one who brought it back to life.
Successful repair attempts are always proof of one's capabilitiy and understanding both fostering your imagination and experience. But do not set your heart exclusively on that one and only camera. There are others waiting for you, so buy a junker for spare parts (maybe that one will be more promising than the one you are presently dealing with), buy a more demanding one (a Canonet, early Ricohs, Fujicas) to prove you can do better and so on. If something goes wrong, so what? Such is life. If you do not find instant solutions, put it on a shelf for a while, give your skills time to develop and then try again.
35mm RF cameras can be had for just a dime and can give you hours of delight and confidence: problems are there to be solved, if camera repair was easy and/or fast we wouldn't do it, right? |
newindustar
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 12:42 pm: |
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There is a third hole in the brass plate. It seems to fit right over the hole for the main self-timer post (adjacent to the self-timer hole the shutter speen indent spring uses)and is the same diameter. Too bad the hole is occupied. My other thought involved locking the brass to the main threaded lens clylinder but have not figured out how. Every other idea seems to intefer with the cocking rack.
I agree it the time to step back from this job, hard to do when so close. I jinxed myself at the start without knowing it with the silver retaining ring removal. Maybe I should have used penetrating oil first.
Camera repair is quite a challenge in concentration, care, logic, dexterity, and patience. I messed up on the care by not taking more time to get that ring off the right way. Perhaps the right tool would have done the trick. My goal was to get a camera I liked for shooting with out a lot of investment but the repair is interesting it's own right. I gave that camera a lot of time I didn't have! It is so easy to come to a dead end from the loss of any one of those tiny parts, espicially if one has no other parts.
Really what I am looking for is exceptional lenses that have a special look and quality as a shooter. I feel that way about the Jupiter-12 and am on a quest for others. I have a Exacta Varex IIA. The Zeiss Jena 50mm 2.8 service here on this forum was my welcome break from the Konica. I am quite taken with the Exacta for is wonderful mechanical build. I am trying to find out what are the exceptional lenses for it that I could afford, the f1.5 85mm is probably too expensive.
Do you think these Konicas and other rangefinders in their class are worth the effort in terms of the glass and quality of the images? |
newindustar
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 11, 2006 - 12:49 pm: |
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There is a third hole in the brass plate. It seems to fit right over the hole for the main self-timer post (adjacent to the self-timer hole the shutter speen indent spring uses)and is the same diameter. Too bad the hole is occupied. My other thought involved locking the brass to the main threaded lens clylinder but have not figured out how. Every other idea seems to intefer with the cocking rack.
I agree it the time to step back from this job, hard to do when so close. I jinxed myself at the start without knowing it with the silver retaining ring removal. Maybe I should have used penetrating oil first.
Camera repair is quite a challenge in concentration, care, logic, dexterity, and patience. I messed up on the care by not taking more time to get that ring off the right way. Perhaps the right tool would have done the trick. My goal was to get a camera I liked for shooting with out a lot of investment but the repair is interesting it's own right. I gave that camera a lot of time I didn't have! It is so easy to come to a dead end from the loss of any one of those tiny parts, espicially if one has no other parts.
Really what I am looking for is exceptional lenses that have a special look and quality as a shooter. I feel that way about the Jupiter-12 and am on a quest for others. I have a Exacta Varex IIA. The Zeiss Jena 50mm 2.8 service here on this forum was my welcome break from the Konica. I am quite taken with the Exacta for is wonderful mechanical build. I am trying to find out what are the exceptional lenses for it that I could afford, the f1.5 85mm is probably too expensive.
Do you think these Konicas and other rangefinders in their class are worth the effort in terms of the glass and quality of the images? |
Konicakrazy
Tinkerer
Username: Konicakrazy
Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 05:27 pm: |
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Am a devotee of the Konica Auto S-2 as well, and have several. Having found several mint cameras at a low cost on internet, several had the sensor wires sheared off as well. Have perfected the repairs, but have never been able to find a source for the replacement wires. Most new wires today are really poor quality and either too stiff or too thick to fit properly. Does anyone know the answer for finding replacement ire like originals? |
Nickon51
Tinkerer
Username: Nickon51
Post Number: 11
Registered: 05-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2008 - 06:34 pm: |
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This page (and the next) has some wire listed. I don't know how this wire is measured, but could be worth a look.
http://www.micro-tools.com/store/SearchByCategory.aspx?CategoryCode=GPT
Cheers |
Konicakrazy
Tinkerer
Username: Konicakrazy
Post Number: 11
Registered: 12-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 14, 2008 - 01:12 pm: |
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Have found the perfect replacement wires for sheared off wires on the Konica Auto S-2 rangefinder. Cut open a USB cable used for printer and discovered that the wires inside are perfect replacements. However, am still looking for a slow speed escapement for another Konica Auto S-2 rangefinder. |
