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mikajee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 12:50 pm: | 
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Forgive my English -please
I have Pentacon Six TL with focal plane shutter (cloth curtain)
Pro service was too expensive so i decide to lubricate it my self.
After lubricating i noticed that the cloth curtain changed its shape and that the shutter is partially retarding but only at highest 1/1000 sec. on the photos it is manifesting like a dark shadow in the corner of an image. link to an image
http://img15.imgspot.com/u/06/95/13/pentaconsix1144344917.jpg
i think that the oil accidentaly drained to curtain.
Is there any way to clean it.? |
Henry
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 03:14 pm: |
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Just guessing here, but I'd say when you lubed your camera you dissolved the glue holding one of the curtain straps. It appears to be doing a weird "one-legged" capping.
To check this, try pulling on the top and bottom of the curtains while it is both cocked and uncocked.
Henry |
Glenn Middleton
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 08:20 pm: |
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Unless the camera has had a poor re-curtain job, the Pentacon Six does not have separate ribbons. Instead each blind is cut out of a rectangle of cloth; the ribbons being formed by cutting out a rectangular hole, leaving a thin strip top and bottom. The metal laths are just crimped and riveted on. The blinds are thus held on the rollers by a full width, well overlapped glued joint at each end. The blind that seems to be giving problems has a stepped driven roller - the last centimeter at each end has a diameter approx 0.75mm greater than the central portion of the roller. To allow the curtain to be attached, two 2cm longitudinal slits prevent the curtain 'creasing'. Even if the bottom half of the curtain became unglued, it is very difficult to get any appreciable slack into the bottom edge of the curtain. It appears that shellac is the bonding agent - the strength of the join as always, coming from the overlap.
On the three sets of blinds I have in front of me, small rectangles of a rubberised tape have been bonded to the small tabs formed by the longitudinal slits. It is quite possible that the ones on the top tab have swollen, thus increasing diameter of top part of roller. This will give an uneven wind up of the curtain in question.
These cameras cannot be cleaned and lubricated without removing the shutter crate/wind mechanism/speed mechanism from the body casing. This is a simple job, which allows the minuscule amounts of grease and oil required to be placed accurately.
I would suggest you remove the complete mechanism from the body casing and carefully flush away the oil with naphtha/lighter fluid. Allow the mechanism/shutter curtains to dry out completely - if left long enough the curtains will shrink back to their original thickness/size.
Then carefully lubricate with Nyoil or watch oil and a suitable grease. An old, small plastic hypodermic syringe fitted with a fine needle makes a good oiler. Get rid of the plunger - you control the flow of oil by placing a finger over the open end of the syringe. |
mikajee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 03:41 am: |
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thank You Henry and Glenn
i have disassembeld the body again and realized that the glue was not disolved and the belts are good attached but one curtain belt seems longer than the other one or maybe it is increasing diameter of a roller. i tryed tu flash the belts with zippo lighter fluid but nothing happend.
please see picture - link
http://img15.imgspot.com/u/06/96/06/pentaconsixbelt1144404928.jpg |
mikajee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 05:23 am: |
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right now i realized that the upper belt is not streched but the lower belt could be maybe too short but most likely the problem is incresing diameter due to poor lubricating of the rollers
i compared this pictures wit the upper one
http://japantrip.tripod.com/6x6/inside.html |
Glenn Middleton
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 05:35 am: |
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Ok, this curtain is 'glued' onto a roller of constant diameter at the wind on end of camera. The size of the piece of curtain that wraps around the roller is 65mm x 34mm and the overlap of material is 14mm.
The problem here with this curtain as you cannot see the 'glued' end of the curtain, it is hidden by the other curtain.
I must state here that on the four Pentacons I have completely pulled down for parts - these range across the total production period - this end of that particular curtain has always required more effort to remove ie always well 'glued'.
As I stated in my original post, it is the overlap/wrap around that really holds the curtains on the rollers.
It is possible that the curtain has become unglued at that roller and has slipped, however due to the overlap it is still held on the roller - albeit at an angle.
There is a way that you can check the curtain attachment on that roller, but it takes great care and very careful handling. I have had four wrecks to practice on remember.
Release the shutter mechanism so that the curtains are all rolled onto the sprung rollers at the shutter speed setting end of body. Now carefully lift the metal lath of the rear most curtain and pull it very gently outwards and off the sprung roller - I use an old flat wooden ice lolly stick to support the lath once I have lifted it clear. You will now have the rear curtain in a very loose state at the wind-on end. It is now possible to examine the attachment of the front curtain to its roller at that end of camera. Any slippage, that has caused the wrap around to not be perpendicular to the rotational axis of the roller will be clearly seen.
Only problem if slippage has occurred is sorting it. You will have to at least remove the sprung rollers at the speed setting end - this will give enough space under the rear curtain to re-glue the slipped wrap around, with the other rollers still assembled. I have just checked this on an assembled crate and it is feasible and requires the minimum of stripdown. Removing the driven rollers at the wind-on end requires you to completely readjust the mechanism. At least you can remove the speed setting mechanism as a complete unit quite simply.
Sorry I cannot give you a simple fix. |
Glenn Middleton
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 05:41 am: |
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Your latest post sent whilst I was writing mine.
No, you surmise is wrong. The rollers are all one piece. Only way for ribbons (belts) to appear to have different lengths is fabric stretch or becoming unglued |
mikajee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 05:44 am: |
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thank You Glenn,
i really appreciate.
i should catch some time in the evening and check this out. |
mikajee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 07, 2006 - 10:20 am: |
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thanks to you Glenn i was trying to find the reason why one ribbon seems to be shorter than the other one. i checked the rollers at first and everything seems to be normal... trust me  i can really do it, and after all confusion i have found traces of sealing ribbon to curtain which left ex owner or servicer.
(recently i bought this one on e-bay)
link to picture
http://img474.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ribbonsealling1tz.jpg
traces are visible like traces of glue and tiny paint damage on metal lath.
there is more question coming to me at the moment
- shell i acquire some new tools to shorten another ribbon? and which one?
- shel i buy another body for parts?
- shell i pay the authorized servicer?
thank you very much in advance |
Mark Wood
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 02:10 am: |
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This might not be much help but I thought I'd mention that Pentacon themselves are still happy to service these cameras, so this might give you an idea of servicing costs. They fully serviced my Six TL late last year which included an upgrade to the film advance mechanism, fitting of a mirror lock-up and a much brighter focussing screen with split image and a grid. Including the postage charges from Dresden to the UK, the total was around £180 - not cheap but they seem to have done an excellent job. Their contact details are on their web site. |
mikajee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 03:37 pm: |
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thanks Mark
good to know |
Glenn Middleton
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 09:03 pm: |
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Mikajee,
From your latest picture the shutter blinds look as if they are non original. The ribbons/tapes look as if they are exactly that - ribbon. Perhaps this is how the factory now makes them, but I suspect a poor repair is the answer. Your problem is most likely caused by one of the ribbons pulling away from the rivet in the lath.
I have a set of original blinds, they are not new but are good. If you want them, email me your address and I will pop them in post.
Glenn |
mikajee
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 11:51 am: |
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Glenn,
i would be greatfull
im sending email
m |
