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Myequation
Tinkerer
Username: Myequation
Post Number: 12
Registered: 11-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 07:02 pm: | 
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I've successfully repaired a few shutters from various cameras. Rolleiflex, Zeiss Ikontas, and many other TLRs and folders.
Most classic shutters are from the Compur family and this is what I’m trying to master.
I see mixed reviews on what tools are best. Most use Naphtha lighter fluid to flush out old lubricates. If properly dissembled and cleaned this method with lighter fluid works for me 80% of the time.
Other times no matter how clean the gears and shutter blades are the slowest speed (1 sec) will stick.
I know that these shutters are made to run dry, but I have read that sometimes some oil is required.
I’ve never tried this but would like to hear what others have done and what the proper amounts and what oil should be used?
I’ve even read that some add graphite to the lighter fluid to insure a proper coating on that selected gear and pivot.
So, tips anyone? |
Rick_oleson
Tinkerer
Username: Rick_oleson
Post Number: 420
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 07:40 pm: |
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Usually a shutter will run well dry, but some will run rough. In these cases, after first making sure that it is properly cleaned, I apply one drop of oil to the shaft of the star wheel, one drop to the pivot of the rocker pallet, and one to the teeth of the star wheel.... that's all.
The oil must be very thin... my favorite source is to squirt some WD-40 into a small bottle and let the solid gunk settle to the bottom, and then dip the clear oil off the top. Watch oil, fine gun oil, and ultra light hobby oil will work as well.
Graphite is a good lubricant, but the particles must be extremely small or they can do more harm than good in an escapement. The powder can also find its way to internal lens surfaces. I don't use it in shutter escapements. |
Adrian
Tinkerer
Username: Adrian
Post Number: 100
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 05:05 am: |
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On a slight tangent, someone on here (Pablo? It's his sort of thing) posted a period repair manual for box cameras generally. This recommended using graphite powder as a lubricant. I've used a pencil to restore shutter function to one myself. However, that's a very simple mechanism and the disc shutters you tend to find have a large area of potential contact between the parts, and oil would probably have enough "drag" to make them stickier rather than freer. And, of course, they were made for snapshots, likely to be abused as much as used and a little extra dust here and there wouldn't make a great deal of difference.
However, as Rick says, there are an awful lot of other places graphite could get to...
A prime reason for shutters and apertures becoming sluggish is oil migrating from the focusing lensas the grease ages and separates. Easy enough to sort - but presumably your grease on your helicoid has lost some of its function. Do you clean the helicoid as well, or do you leave the old grease if it appears to still move freely? Then, of course, you risk more oil migrating back where you've just cleaned...
And if you do clean, what is best to re-lube with?
Adrian |
Mr500cm
Tinkerer
Username: Mr500cm
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 03:51 pm: |
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I've repaired many Crown Graphics as well as Hasselblads and when I clean gunky shutters I like to use ether because it does the job well. It can commonly be found in auto parts stores as starting fluid. BE CAREFUL and only use it outdoors where it is well ventalated. Once the shutter is clean, then I apply Nyoil which is a great camera oil to keep the gear train smooth. |
Paul_ron
Tinkerer
Username: Paul_ron
Post Number: 80
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 04:46 pm: |
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Probably the reason your shutter needs some oil to jump start it is because the shutter's brass parts have oxidised over teh years adn need to self lub again by using it again. The oil is so light it will dissapate in time and hopefully since you're using the camera again it will start running dry again.
NYOil is trumpet valve oil bought in music stores for about a buck / 3 0z. It's called NYOil by camera suppliers because the manufacturer/distributor is in Queens NY. |
Rick_oleson
Tinkerer
Username: Rick_oleson
Post Number: 423
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 07:04 pm: |
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I didn't know that! I'll have to steal some from my daughter's trumpet case. |
Adrian
Tinkerer
Username: Adrian
Post Number: 102
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 07:45 am: |
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I've just succesfully repaired a Prestor RVS shutter (you read that right - a Werra shutter. I feel I have a right to stand on top of my dunghill and crow now, so I'm going to!).
Given that effectively it's two shutters in one, fitted into the space of one, one would expect it to be truly horrid to work on. Actually, it's not too bad. It is reasonably intuitive if you take one bit at a time, and with care you can use trial and error. I used up a big can of each! Each time, though, you know better what to do next time it doesn't go - by the end, I could do a complete strip-and-hang-the-cocking-rings-back-on in about fifteen minutes before I finally got it spot-on. It took me a great deal of time and foul language, largely because I didn't believe what it was trying to tell me. In short, if a spring won't stay on where it was designed to stay, it's because it has stretched! And if it feels as though it is being forced, it's not right either. It's the second shutter I've done now, he first being a Prontor SV in a Zeiss-Ikon Contina. Again - info made available through links from here.
I had a small assortment of tools - no less than three sets of jeweller's screwdrivers, a pair of forceps, a home-made lens wrench (thank you, Pablo Martinez!), pliers and a piece of rubber sheet. Most important, though, was that I had instructions from this forum from Tony Duell and Stuart Willis about dismantling the thing. I don't think Tony has been seen on the "new" forum, but Stuart is still here, under a different login. If either of you read this, thank you!
In short, right tools, make time and space, and research your beastie first.
Of course, there is a problem with all this. I now have the remains of two junk Werras that I cannibalised for parts. One is knackered beyond redemption, but the other I reckon two new springs and I might get that going as well - and have a working Werra 3... Time to go round a friend's and raid his scrap box, I think. Help! It's addictive!
Adrian |
Myequation
Tinkerer
Username: Myequation
Post Number: 13
Registered: 11-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 06:56 pm: |
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Thanks guys, lots of good tips.
I like hearing what others have tried even if they fail.
The nyoil tip was great! I never would have checked a music store for oil..
Thank everyone. |
Dgillette4
Tinkerer
Username: Dgillette4
Post Number: 109
Registered: 04-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 06:37 am: |
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Same here on using a dry shutter. You have to be careful when using distillent cleaners, One is flammable and the other is what some shutters are made of. I use just a pin point of thhhhin oil on pivots and pallates. Once I cleaned an antique apeature mechanism only to have it gum together, found out the blades were made of some type of rubber. copals work dry only the slightest of silcone on pivots. There is all kinds of silicone out there and most has additional byproducts which gum up. There are links on this web site for tools and chemicals, very good . Don |
Pablomartinez
Tinkerer
Username: Pablomartinez
Post Number: 78
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 08:45 am: |
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It might sound weird but when the blades of a shutter are slighly rusted, I clean them with a product called "tarni-shield" made by 3M. This product is intended for cleaning silverware. I do not know what it has but after cleaning the blades, they look perfectly dry but there are coated with something that prevents the rust, and more importantly, slightly lubricate the blades. So far, it has not gone gummy. |
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