| Author |
Message |
    
Smasher
Tinkerer
Username: Smasher
Post Number: 13
Registered: 12-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2012 - 03:13 pm: | 
|
Hi, all. I have a Retina IIIc which I'm very fond of, but which has an intermittent shutter. I've had limited success using naptha a number of times to clean the blades. (The really annoying thing: it seems to behave just fine until I load a roll of film and try shooting; then it behaves as if it's gummed up again.) The cocking rack under the top cover looks fine, and I think I've got the little gear that transfers the cocking action to the shutter assembly (at 10:00 as you look at the front of the camera) adjusted correctly.
A couple of days ago I took a deep breath and opened up the assembly down as far as (and including) the speed plate. (I also took out the front and rear lens assemblies.) There seems to be a little bit of grime in there, but nothing awful.
I dripped a few drops of naptha into the shutter assembly, cleaned the speed plate and parts above it as best I could, and reassembled the shutter. It worked OK for a few cycles--and adjusting shutter speed and aperture seemed smoother than before--but then (after sitting for a couple of days to air out), the blades failed again.
At this point I've got the lens assemblies removed. I'm wondering if it makes sense to flood clean the shutter, but I have a couple of questions before I proceed:
- My plan is to disassemble the shutter down past the speed plate, remove the shutter from the lens board (one ring from behind?), and dunk it in naptha. Is this a good idea? What about the focus helicoid? Does the focus helicoid stay on the lens board when you remove the shutter ass'y?
- What about re-lubing? I'm assuming that if I dunk the shutter and let it dry, I'll have to re-lube at least some of its components. Looking at the Synchro-Compur manual (http://benoit.suaudeau.perso.neuf.fr/manuels_rep/obturateurs/Compur-shutter-repa ir-manual.html), there's some information there about different types of lubricant and where to apply them. (See Section 12, "Lubrication Schedules.") They list a "Lubricant A" and a Lubricant C," but I don't know what these correspond to, or if I'd have to disassemble the shutter further to properly lubricate it.
What do these "Lubricant A" and "Lubricant C" correspond to? I have available the following:
- Watch oil (the stuff from Micro-Tools)
- Tri-Flow (probably the wrong stuff--too many additives?)
- Phil's Tenacious Oil (a thicker oil for bicycles--probably exactly the wrong stuff)
- Silicon grease (which I'd be inclined to use for focusing helicoids but nothing else)
I don't have a shutter-speed tester, so I don't want to take apart the whole shutter and reassemble, just to get to the shutter and aperture leaves. And I'm not intending this to be my only camera; I just want it to be reliable enough for occasional use, so I think doing a full CLA is overkill, especially given my limited repair skills. I'm shooting and souping mostly black-and-white at this point, so shutter accuracy ain't really crucial. I just want it to work when I want it to work, not necessarily to work to within 10% of spec.
So I guess the short version of all this is: Can I just take it off the lens plate, pull it partially apart, dunk it in naptha, let it dry, apply a tiny bit of watch oil here and there (where exactly?), and call it a day, or do I need to be more invasive than that? |
Smasher
Tinkerer
Username: Smasher
Post Number: 14
Registered: 12-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2012 - 04:09 pm: |
|
Or--for that matter, is there a way to separate the blade assembly (from the rear) from the rest of the mechanism (escapement, self-timer, and all those tiny little springs)? That'd be great, because then I could just dunk the blade assembly without disassembling or disturbing the clockwork. |
Finnegan
Tinkerer
Username: Finnegan
Post Number: 120
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2012 - 07:29 pm: |
|
Why don't you try a can of spray cleaner like CRC 5-56 electronic contact cleaner? I have had shutters that keep gumming up and they need more than lighter fluid. |
Brcamera
Tinkerer
Username: Brcamera
Post Number: 152
Registered: 08-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2012 - 01:13 pm: |
|
If you are going as far as removing the shutter assembly, why not do the job properly and take out the mechanism plate, remove the blades and do a careful cleaning of each blade and the mechanism plate of the oil residue. Dunking a complete shutter in cleaner is not a good idea. As for lubrication, I use a moly lube applied very, very sparingly to sliding parts. Be very careful with any sort of oil as it can migrate to places that you don't want it to go, such as shutter blades. The speeds escapement is removed as a unit and does not need to be disassembled and can be immersed in a cleaning solution. I have never lubricated a speeds escapement and can always get a shutter to specs if it is properly cleaned. Certainly the complete cleaning will take a bit of time if you have never done it before but you will learn some new skills. Be patient and careful. |
Smasher
Tinkerer
Username: Smasher
Post Number: 15
Registered: 12-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2012 - 06:14 pm: |
|
Thanks for the info; that's really helpful!
So the whole timing mechanism can be separated from the blade assembly? (I couldn't quite discern that from the drawings.) |
Brcamera
Tinkerer
Username: Brcamera
Post Number: 153
Registered: 08-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2012 - 08:58 pm: |
|
Yes, the timing mechanism (speeds escapement) is a discrete unit and you normally would not take it apart for cleaning. You can mark the position of the escapement on its adjustment point for reassembly. The blades are all separate and when you remove the mechanism plate they will usually fall out of the shutter housing so be careful. You might want to note their position before disassembly. I won't say this is a simple job, but it really is the only way to do a complete cleaning. |
Spdtwn
Tinkerer
Username: Spdtwn
Post Number: 24
Registered: 09-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 12, 2012 - 09:51 pm: |
|
If the shutter release button depresses,and the camera winds on but the blades don't open even after cleaning you may have a problem which occurs on compur shutters of that type. It lies in the M-rechen escapement. That is the M-flash delay mech. Remove the front speed plate and take out the self timer esc...1xscrew. Make sure the blades are free. The area you are looking at is between the release arm and the main spring..an esc with a spring loaded latch arm..within this little group is a cam with a lever resting on it. This is the troublesome part! the cam acts like a honing stone and puts a sharp edge on to the lever's bearing surface which digs in and prevents the esc. releasing the shutter. You have to remove the relative parts, take a real stone and hone off the sharp/cutting edge on the lever. A smear of moly grease on the bearing surfaces is good. While you are at it, take your stone lightly around the cocking ring, it gets sharp edges too, maybe wash out the s/t esc & a dot of fine lub. on the pawl.
Hope this make sense! |
Nickon51
Tinkerer
Username: Nickon51
Post Number: 154
Registered: 05-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2012 - 05:58 am: |
|
I think I would take the advice of Brcamera. If you have got the lenses out and the shutter partially stripped then go ahead and do the job properly.
You will not need to retime the shutter. The two main timers, speed and self timer, just lift out of the device. put them in a shallow container of lighter fluid and operate them manually a few times. Then move down onto the shutter blades underneath. They will be sticky will oil and flush cleaning just leaves the gunk in there.
The aperture blades can be tricky to reassmble. Close the aperture down and place a sticky dot label or small piece of masking tape in the centre. That will keep the blades together, lift them out, clean the housing and put them back.
For lubricant, if a part turns around, like a wheel, use a tiny tiny drop of clock oil. If it slides use a small amount of light grease.
Spdtwn has given you some good tips as well, which I will also make a note of.
PM me and I can send you an english copy of the manual.
Good luck
Greg |
Br1078lum
Tinkerer
Username: Br1078lum
Post Number: 254
Registered: 11-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2012 - 01:40 pm: |
|
I've got a Ricoh 300 that what Spdtwn described happened to. The Riken shutter has one long arm that reaches all the way from the top of the shutter mount, to around the four o'clock position (going the long way around on the left side) where it engages a catch on the speed escapement. It developed a burr there, and would catch, not allowing the arm to return to it's proper position when firing the shutter. I also have a Zeiss Inconta with a Klio shutter that did the same thing, only in another part of the mechanism.
These are metal parts beating on other metal parts, and act like a hammer in a blacksmiths shop. Whichever is the weakest will give way, and create those burrs that get caught on other moving parts.
PF |
Milosdevino
Tinkerer
Username: Milosdevino
Post Number: 25
Registered: 03-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 15, 2012 - 03:12 am: |
|
Check out this site
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~Srawhiti/index.html
Chris Sherlock posts here on this site sometimes (I think) and he knows an aweful lot about Retinas. There is a complete strip down and re-lube of your shutter (or one like it)in the repair section.
Good luck. |
|
