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Nickm758
Tinkerer
Username: Nickm758
Post Number: 31
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - 06:14 pm: | 
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Hello everyone,
I'm having some trouble with a rim-set Compur on an original Rolleicord.
Specifically, I'm having trouble with the 1/50 and 1/25 speeds. 1/50 doesn't fire reliably, and 1/25 is firing at 1 second. All the other speeds seem okay.
In this picture here (not mine) >> http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4092/5090256464_8cff15019d.jpg >> I seem to be having trouble near the escapement, at the 4 o'clock position. There is a pin that moves in and out governing speed - when the shutter is cocked at 1/25, this pin moves all the way towards the lens (up and left in the picture) and then the shutter fires at 1 second.
Is this a lubrication issue? Has the shutter been put together incorrectly? Any help is most appreciated!  |
Br1078lum
Tinkerer
Username: Br1078lum
Post Number: 475
Registered: 11-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - 08:34 pm: |
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I hate that little adjustment screw. Had to make a special tool to tighten it. I'm happy they changed it later on.
Have you removed and cleaned the escapement? That's usually all it takes to get things working again on these.
PF |
Denny
Tinkerer
Username: Denny
Post Number: 129
Registered: 08-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - 09:34 pm: |
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I think that pin is controlled by how much it moves towards the lens by the grooves in the speed ring. When putting the speed ring on, make sure the pin fits into the groove. And as stated, if you haven't cleaned the escapement, that will affect the speeds, especially the slower ones.
On my Rolleicord II, the escapement needed cleaning and speeds corrected.
Good Luck. |
Nickm758
Tinkerer
Username: Nickm758
Post Number: 32
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - 10:57 pm: |
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Thank you for the responses!
I have not taken out the slow-speed escapement. Honestly I did not want to, because I'm quite sure I wouldn't be able to put it back together again.
As for the speed governing pin, it's supposed to run along the speed ring, in the grooves, and not underneath it, right?
I do not have the camera in front of me right now, so I will check this evening. |
Denny
Tinkerer
Username: Denny
Post Number: 130
Registered: 08-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2013 - 06:38 pm: |
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Yes, the pin goes into the groove. You may have to move it while putting the speed ring on to make sure it is in the groove.
You may well be able to clean the escapement without removing it. If you have all the lenses out, an application of lighter fluid with soaked q-tips and cycling the escapement while saturated will start the cleaning. Hold the shutter so the escapement is at the bottom and the fluid will drain out the bottom.
At the bottom of this page
https://kyp.hauslendale.com/classics/articles.html
Check out Rich Oleson and Dan Mitchell's websites. I have found them to be helpful on cleaning shutters.
Good Luck and keep us posted. |
Br1078lum
Tinkerer
Username: Br1078lum
Post Number: 476
Registered: 11-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2013 - 06:44 pm: |
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Oh, you don't take it apart, it comes out as one piece after removing the two screws that hold it. Cock the shutter to uncover and remove the second screw, and lift it out. Then give it a good bath in lighter fluid (Ronsonal), or a good grade of Naptha, running the gears back and forth to loosen any thing that has lodged in the teeth. Blow dry, and put back in the shutter. To adjust, loosen that cone headed screw, and move the escapement towards the lens barrel until one second is correct, then tighten the screw. Put everything else back, and you're done. Make sure that pin is not under the speed ring.
Here are my photos of an Agfa Karat 36 with the same shutter, if you need some extra guidence http://flic.kr/s/aHsjyUvJs5
PF |
Nickm758
Tinkerer
Username: Nickm758
Post Number: 33
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2013 - 08:03 pm: |
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Thank you again everyone, for being so helpful!!
I opened the shutter again last night, and removed the escapement: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nick_ch/8451333399/in/photostream/ I'm going to bathe the whole unit this weekend.
In its current state, with the name-plate off, set to 1/25: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nick_ch/8452511186/in/photostream .. it fires at 1 second. When cocking the shutter, the speed-governor (I labelled it in the photo) moves all the way to the inside. Cleaning the slow-speed escapement would fix this? The grooves in the speed ring do not. 1/50 does not work properly either, though all the other speeds do.
>> To adjust, loosen that cone headed screw, and move the escapement towards the lens barrel until one second is correct, then tighten the screw. Put everything else back, and you're done. Make sure that pin is not under the speed ring. <<
By cone headed screw, do you mean the one I labelled #1 in this photo? http://www.flickr.com/photos/nick_ch/8452511186/in/photostream |
Nickm758
Tinkerer
Username: Nickm758
Post Number: 34
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2013 - 05:08 am: |
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I played with it again this evening, but no-go.
I uploaded a video of the shutter in action here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgIQiamI33s
1/10 works, 1/25 is around 1 second, and 1/50 is around 1/15-ish. What is going wrong? |
Denny
Tinkerer
Username: Denny
Post Number: 131
Registered: 08-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2013 - 06:36 pm: |
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I think cleaning the escapement will fix the erratic speeds you are experiencing. Take a look at Rick Oleson's "tutorial" here.
http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-88.html
You can see the the escapement has another control that affects it and the 1/10 to 1/25 is where things change.
Another thing I have had happen, but not on my Rolleicord is the leaves in the shutter also can stick to one another, but that affects more than just a few speeds, but can play havoc on the slowest speeds. By watching your video, I don't think you have that issue. It looks like the
"cam follower" and "pallet switch" are in the speed ring grooves.
Good Luck |
Br1078lum
Tinkerer
Username: Br1078lum
Post Number: 477
Registered: 11-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2013 - 07:26 pm: |
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Now there is the problem when using photos that are not the same as what you are talking about, as the one you used in your original post is not the same shutter as the one you are working on. Your Number 1 screw is the one I was referencing, but it's a different design in the first photo. It serves the same function, so the advice is the same. It's just that the one you have is much easier to use.
And speaking of advice, if you're not going to clean the esacapement, don't expect anything to work better just by taking it out and putting it back in. After many decades of all kinds of stuff working it's way into the shutter gearing, you have to clean it properly, or all is for naught.
PF |
Nickm758
Tinkerer
Username: Nickm758
Post Number: 35
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 07, 2013 - 08:41 pm: |
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I did clean the escapement, but obviously not enough. |
Nickm758
Tinkerer
Username: Nickm758
Post Number: 36
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2013 - 02:54 am: |
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Problem solved! (baring any other trouble ...)
The release arm on the slow-speed escapement was bent down and slipping under the speed dial. Bent back into position, both 1/50 and 1/25 are now working again.
Thank you to everyone for providing help! |
Denny
Tinkerer
Username: Denny
Post Number: 132
Registered: 08-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2013 - 08:53 pm: |
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Thanks for the info. I have never experienced that one and it is good to know for future "issues" one may find. |
