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Message |
    
Guesskoenig
Tinkerer
Username: Guesskoenig
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 17, 2009 - 11:02 pm: | 
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I have a Dualflex IV with the Kodar which that can be focused, except the problem is that it does not focus. I took apart the camera and cleaned it all with some mineral spirits and wiped the lenses with a lint free cloth. However, I cannot figure out how the two metal pieces that go over the actual lens are supposed to re-attach. The lens itself sits in a threaded well, but does not turn without considerable force. The small metal cap and the piece that goes with it are obviously supposed to turn the lens in and out of this well but I can not even figure out how to get them both back on. I am not missing any parts as far as I know and still retain the two tiny screws on the outermost ring.
I hope that there is someone that has experience with these cameras. I realize that they are pretty cheap but I'd like to be able to get this into working condition to give it as a gift.    |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 693
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 04:11 pm: |
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I have to ask the obvious - if you removed the name and focus rings, why can't you reverse the procedure?
First and most importantly, the focus helix threads are obviously partially seized. You should clean out the old grease and relube the helix, before attempting any re-assembly.
Unfortunately your photographs are somewhat unclear, but the refitting of the name ring is obvious. The lesser diameter ring, on the item in the righthand photographs, seems to have radially spaced holes for locating screws that would screw into the front portion of the inner helical. Is this the case? Also, is this lesser diameter ring fractured in any way? To me the photograph seems to show that the lower segment is is missing, unless the area is purposely machined away to produce the max and min focus stops. Are you sure that the seized helix has not caused part of the this plated brass pressing to fracture?
If nobody comes up with the correct assembly procedure, can you take a clearer, head-on view of the lens/helix assembly?
In some cameras; to remove the items shown you would have to remove the radially place focus stop screw, situated in the bottom of the scale ring, then unscrew the inner helical far enough to remove the radial screws in the afore mentioned lesser diameter ring - thus releasing the item in the photograph. There are many other ways to assemble focus helicals and focus rings, but I cannot imagine how you would forget the dis-assembly procedures or loose the threaded rings, associated with these other assemblies. |
Guesskoenig
Tinkerer
Username: Guesskoenig
Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 07:09 pm: |
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The lower ring is machined to stop depending on the focus, I've cleaned and lubed the threads with 3-in-1 and it does not seem to make a difference on it. There >is< three small screws in the outer hub, obviously meant to stop the focus mechanism itself. When I was working on the camera the two rings that are off of it now simply came off - which is why I am not sure how they reattach.
It's supposed to lock into the lens a little bit and then assist in the turning but the unit doesn't seem to want to - but I will try again. |
Guesskoenig
Tinkerer
Username: Guesskoenig
Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 09:16 pm: |
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After about an hour of trying to get the lens into the well on top of the lower ring, as well as trying to put the ring on once it's in - I am unsucessful. Here are some more pictures, I've done my best to get as close and focused as possible. The bottom ring is oblong while the top is a perfect circle. When assembled you cannot see the bottom piece at all - it must fit into the top thread of the lens while the lens itself fits the rest of the way into the well.
Also, I understand what you are saying but even when I had it fully taken apart I could not access the three small screws that are in the ring surrounding the lens hub - you can see them in the frontal picture.
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Msiegel
Tinkerer
Username: Msiegel
Post Number: 144
Registered: 03-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 01:56 am: |
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THe camera should look like this when assembled:
http://www.rubylane.com/shops/charmingandcheap/item/8425
I'm not sure from your pics but to me it looks like there is something missing - the plastic part you can see in the pics - the one that goes from the lens to the name ring.
I never had one of those in hands so I can judge only from the pics.
Additionally parts "just coming off" is not a good omen. Lens and focusing parts are designed to be used all the time and normally stay put. I fear someone already tried a repair was not successful and just stuffed parts on again.
The part might still be there and I just did not see it in your pics. |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 697
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 05:17 pm: |
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I may be talking out of my proverbial. I think that the front lens baffle, which is definitely missing, would be firmly attached to the inner threaded lens cell and could have had a small flange on its front edge that would have been clamped between the front and rear rings. ie Drop ring with focus stops into front 'mount' block, screw in the lens cell and adjust focus, then place front ring onto lens baffle and align the two screw holes. Tighten screws and thus clamp baffle between front and back metal rings - this will allow you to then turn the lens cell and adjust focus.
As I stated the above is all conjecture, and probably complete rubbish - There is nothing wrong with your photos; however, they do not allow me to work out how the parts fit correctly, a cross sectional 'view' of the rear ring would solve much. As Martin stated in his post, parts that 'just come off' are always bad news. They usually indicate broken parts, or as already mentioned - a bungled DIY attempt. |
Guesskoenig
Tinkerer
Username: Guesskoenig
Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 10:16 pm: |
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https://kyp.hauslendale.com/classics/forum/messages/6900/5068.html
I found this old post yesterday and sent an email to the address asking if he could enlighten upon his procedure, but from all the photos I've seen of assembled models I seem to have all of the correct parts. Once again I understand the reasoning behind the procedure, and I've included more pictures of the back ring to look at.
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Guesskoenig
Tinkerer
Username: Guesskoenig
Post Number: 5
Registered: 10-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 10:56 pm: |
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I think I've got it figured out, the lip on the lens fits into the bottom ring and when your screw the top focus in, the whole thing stays together as a unit but I can not get it into the hub. I've tried doing the lens in by itself and it won't go in unfortunately. |
Msiegel
Tinkerer
Username: Msiegel
Post Number: 145
Registered: 03-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 03:28 am: |
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I was talking about the part shown here:
Is it there and I just did not see it? I think it is necessary.
Picture borrowed from:
http://seeker312.wordpress.com/2009/09/15/kodak-duaflex-iv/ |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 701
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 04:36 am: |
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I fully understand the assembly instructions you found in the archive and the reasons for the '1/4 turn', but before I continue this saga can you clear up a very important point? Forgetting about the two silver rings for the moment, are you saying that you have difficulty/cannot screw in the threaded lens cell into the front of the camera body (hub as you describe it)?
I assume that the front of the metal lens holder has the external light baffle turned into its internal surface - hence no missing piece. The actual optics will not take up much depth in the holder, being I guess a single lens (?).
So if you actually are having difficulty screwing in the lens cell:-
Assuming that the actual thread used on the helical is multi-start (although the following can happen to simple single start threaded focus cells), it is quite possible that your difficulty in getting the threads started is due to the ends of the threads getting 'battered'. The start of these multi start threads are usually a very long chisel edged shape, these are very easily damaged due to the soft nature of the brass used to turn up the complete helical assembly. Wear can also make a universal multi start thread very 'groove' specific - will only screw in from one orientation. If I have difficulty inserting an inner cell assembly/helical, I very gently file the corner of the chisel edged start down - giving the thread start a double taper, if you see what I am getting at. This simple procedure usually allows the threads to start, any further problems usually mean the components have been seriously damaged - dropped and bent for instance.
Funny how the simplest of mechanisms can cause major problems. |
Guesskoenig
Tinkerer
Username: Guesskoenig
Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 10:41 am: |
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Glenn is right in his description that the baffle is actually the interior of the lens, and I will try to get the lens started a few more times before filing away. |
Guesskoenig
Tinkerer
Username: Guesskoenig
Post Number: 7
Registered: 10-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 25, 2009 - 05:36 pm: |
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Wow well, I'm probably through trying to fix this. I got a metal file to try and fix the threads but the little bag I was keeping all of the parts in is now missing one of the tiny screws that hold the turning knob. I'll just cruise the internet for one that does not have this problem - I've gained good experience on how to take these apart and what to expect now. |
