| Author |
Message |
    
Mike_rgb
Tinkerer
Username: Mike_rgb
Post Number: 23
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 31, 2007 - 03:49 pm: | 
|
Hi everyone.
I have inherited a fine looking Kiron lens I had planned on using on my FE. I read about this lens for hours online last night & found it had the abitity to take some fine photos.
Everything moves as smooth as silk & weighs as much as 2.5 FE Bodies. It is marked N/AI with 1 small screw holding the cut away ears. I saw the same 1 screw in the many pics of this same lens.
The small spring loaded tang at the back of the body side moves with the same spring strenth as any Nikkor E lens has. No matter what I set the F-setting or Macro setting on it is, always full wide open.
My Son has a handful of Prakticas with 5 or 6 of these Kiron lens they seem to be heavy trouble free & take good clear Pictures. Does anyone have a clue as to what may be wrong with my lens?
Thanks
Mike. |
Rick_oleson
Tinkerer
Username: Rick_oleson
Post Number: 361
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 31, 2007 - 05:26 pm: |
|
The usual cause of the blades sticking open is oil migrating onto the blades; chances are that's your problem. Unfortunately I do not have specific instructions for you on how to reach the diaphragm in this lens. |
Mike_rgb
Tinkerer
Username: Mike_rgb
Post Number: 24
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 31, 2007 - 07:31 pm: |
|
Rick is there any test I can do like set the lens in the sun until it gets hot & starts to close? Will the spring loaded lever that opens the diphragm still be strong as it is when closed?
Just curious does the diphragm install through the front or rear? As a retired Motorcycle & Porsche Mechanic I can see no tell tell marks of entry through front or back.
Anyone have this lens? With a working lens as inexpensieve as this one is would you take it to a camera shop to be repaired? |
Wernerjb
Tinkerer
Username: Wernerjb
Post Number: 187
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2007 - 01:10 am: |
|
Hi Mike rgb, Rick is right.
There is a short repair article in this forum's lens repair section by Henry (moderator): https://kyp.hauslendale.com/classics/kironlens.html
I have repaired (=cleaned) this lens (the "Panagor" brand version) myself following Henry's tips and using some more pics he sent me via email; the lens is optically flawless, but with a tendency to develop the oily aperture syndrome. This is to say if you consider buying another one you will most probably be faced with the same problem again. |
Mike_rgb
Tinkerer
Username: Mike_rgb
Post Number: 25
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2007 - 02:41 pm: |
|
Thanks Rick & Wernerjb
It seems I get to do my first aperture cleaning job. This all makes sense as the lens was bought used & not used that often.
One last question. In my many years in the shop I have seen Silicone RTV, Hylomar like RTV but resists gasoline, polimers like loc-tites thread repair resists heat & torques like metal. Synthethic oils & grease too numerious to name. My question is. Do you use any new type of synthetic or Co-polimer type of oil today that prolongs oily aperture syndrome?
Thanks guys now off to read Henry's article on cleaning the aperture on this fine lens.
Mike |
Wernerjb
Tinkerer
Username: Wernerjb
Post Number: 188
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2007 - 03:31 pm: |
|
Mike rgb, the article is about how to properly adjust the lens, to get the aperture module out I asked Henry for more pictures, unfortunately I do not have them any longer due to a computer failure. One has to go in from the front and (as the pic in the article shows) one has to remove the rubber, so that the lens can be taken apart. IIRC the front lens cell can be unscrewed after just loosening some tiny setscrews. Next thing is the removal of another lens element under which the aperture housing sits. Before you start you should perhaps ask Henry for that sequence of pictures first, W.
Aperture and shutter blades usually do not need any sort of oil but be absolutely clean instead. |
Mike_rgb
Tinkerer
Username: Mike_rgb
Post Number: 26
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2007 - 08:06 pm: |
|
Well I must have looked at anything & everything to see how true that is. I did learn quite a lot. So I will ask Henry tommorow for the pics in taking the lens down.
So the aperture needs no oil at all. I guess I saw it gumming up the aperture petals in my mind not just getting oily. I always started training any new Mechanic 1st by always consulting the manual 1st. I was amazed over my carreer how many shops had dirty floors & spotless manuals. The older I get the more manuals I buy or copy. I wish I had started into camera repair sooner it's a heck of a lot cleaner & some of the designs are a real challange I like it a lot.
Thanks for the info Wernerib I did not waste a moment reading all the tips etc.
Mike |
Rick_oleson
Tinkerer
Username: Rick_oleson
Post Number: 362
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 01, 2007 - 08:18 pm: |
|
The oil migrates into the aperture blades from elsewhere, mostly from the focus helicals (though zooms don't generally have helicals and so have less grease in them than single-length lenses). There probably are modern greases that are more resistant to migration, but you probably don't want to get into relubing the entire thing. If you can clean the oil out of the diaphragm, that will at least buy you a good amount of time before it needs attention again.
The best solvent to use, especially in newer lenses with plastic barrels etc, is cigarette lighter fluid. It has the (not totally unique, but very valuable) property of being safe to use around polycarbonate. There are more effective cleaners but they are not all safe with plastics, and lighter fluid is capable of doing a good job of cleaning up the oil. |
Mike_rgb
Tinkerer
Username: Mike_rgb
Post Number: 27
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 09:45 am: |
|
Thanks Rick
That's a good tip as you never know just what the barrel will be made from. It's no fun to repair somthing only to ruin something else.
There is one thing that still puzzles me. On all my other Nikon lens MF or AF when the aperture is full wide open the spring loaded connector is unmoveable. I am not looking for a way out of doing the job. Just confused as to why everything works normaly except: the F ring will not open & close the aperture. In other words the aperture is wide open. Why is the lever still moving as if the lens is set to F22 & still working normaly? |
Filmguy
Tinkerer
Username: Filmguy
Post Number: 10
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 07:25 pm: |
|
>On all my other Nikon lens MF or AF when the aperture is full wide open the spring loaded connector is unmoveable.
Mike, not all Nikkors are made that way. The aperture lever on the rear of my 105mm f/2.5 remains completely free, no matter which f-stop the aperture ring is set to. Same for my Nikkor 200mm f/4 and Kiron 28mm f/2. OTOH, I believe all my 50mm Nikkors restrict the movement of the lever in the way you've described. I'm sure it's a normal characteristic of your lens. I also agree that oil on the blades is the culprit. What frequently happens is that the oil migrates to the blades, then the lens sits with the blades held open for some period of time. During that time, the oil thickens and locks the blades. I've repaired a number of primes with this problem, but I have zero success rate with zooms. My best advice is to take your time and be prepared to buy more tools. |
Mike_rgb
Tinkerer
Username: Mike_rgb
Post Number: 29
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 09:03 pm: |
|
Thanks Filmguy
I'm just am a nut for knowing the secrets & tricks that make things tick. As for more tools that's the story of my life, make them buy or trade for them.
I have been looking for the tools for camera work at sales & flea markets. You know I believe while the WWII generation worked on their own cars. They did not repair their cameras or watches. Of course what must repairs have cost when the great Cameras they bought were bargins galore.
This should be a good Zoom to start with it's a good clear lens that weighs a ton.
Mike |
Mike_rgb
Tinkerer
Username: Mike_rgb
Post Number: 30
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 08:19 pm: |
|
Got them Henry. |
Kennj
Tinkerer
Username: Kennj
Post Number: 1
Registered: 09-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 07:53 am: |
|
Is there any information around on how this lens breaks down ? I have one that is now in two sections from a (failed) attempt to adjust the tele zooms infinity focus. I loosened the screws as the instructions on this site suggested and had the camera(Pentax) on a tripod with the lens on it. I had it zoomed out fully and went to make sure the aperture was in the proper position . When I turned the front section to adjust out for infinity it literally came off in my hand.
When I try to put it back together I can not get the sections back into the zoom position as it twists the tines for the aperture adjustment and if they are not in place there is no way to get back to them after the lens is together. Can anyone tell me what I need to do to get these two sections back in one piece?
Thanks for any assistance or suggestions you are able to offer.
Thanks:Kenn |
Kiron_kid
Tinkerer
Username: Kiron_kid
Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 11:11 am: |
|
Most likely, it's oil on the diapragm blades. Ralph, in the Kiron Klub, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kiron-Klub/ can tell you all about fixing it. We even have some repair PDF's in the klub files.
Kiron Kid |
