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Paul Chambre
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 12:24 am: | 
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Hello,
I am entirely new to this site, and also have little camera repair experience. I am, though, a fairly capable vintage watch hobbyist and have a well stocked workshop for repair of old mechanical watches (including hand tools, ultrasonic cleaning machines, watchmakers lathe, oils and greases, etc).
I just bought a Leica IIIf that's in need of at least a CLA. The high-speeds seem to work OK, but low speeds have issues, and B doesn't always lock open.
I bought the factory service manual for it, but the one problem I have at this point is that Leica references lubricating the escapement with their lubricants 601, 602, and 607, and painting the bearings with something they call "Medium No. 100". Could someone tell me where I can find descriptions of these lubricants, and where I might be able to find equivalent modern chemicals?
Thanks for the help,
Paul |
rick oleson
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 08:49 am: |
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Camera escapements need very little lubrication. Unlike watches, they do not run constantly and they have considerably more power behind them (and their accuracy specs are considerably less demanding). What they usually need is cleaning. Once the escapement is completely clean (Cigarette lighter fluid, aka naphtha, coleman fuel, benzine or n-nonane, is the most commonly used cleaner, but other solvents work as well if you don't have any plastic parts around), it is sometimes advisable to lubricate with a touch of very light oil: your watch oil is probably perfect for this. Generally you will need a very light oil for escapements and shutter spindles, and a fairly heavy low friction grease for things like lens focus helicals.... no that much in between.
A good source of repair supplies is www.micro-tools.com - They're one of those places that some people love to hate, but they are the big ones in this business. |
Paul Chambre
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 09:07 am: |
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Thanks Rick,
The thing is that Leica says to coat all the escapement bearings with this "Medium 100." You're supposed to brush it on and let it dry before applying oil.
Are you saying this is not needed? Perhaps they were being over-cautious, or it was something that was only needed before the wide availability of synthetic oils?
Thanks,
Paul |
Henry
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 11:13 am: |
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I think the lubricants we use on our cameras is much better than what the original manufacturer had available. They used lots of different lubricants and adhesives. Generally these days a very light oil (watch or gun oil), a little heavier oil like teflon oil from Radio Shack and moly grease and door graphite (ground even finer) from Pep Boys automotive pretty well covers the lubricants.
For adhesives I use Pliobond, super glue, JB Weld and a two part plastic epoxy I put camera body filings in.
Geez, that's more than I thought I used. But still it is far fewer than the manufacturers used.
Henry |
mike kovacs
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 04:33 pm: |
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Consider in the old days that they used stuff like sperm whale oil and horsehoof glue, and you get an idea of the technology! |
Paul Chambre
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 01:51 am: |
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This camera isn't THAT old. The IIIf was introduced in 1950 or so, and this service manual is dated 1960. By then synthetic oils were in widespread use in watches, and I imagine Camera companies would have taken advantage as well. In fact, what is widely considered the best watch oil ever (to this day) was developed by Elgin in the late 1950's.
I still think that Medium 100 is some sort of epilame like Fix-o-drop that is used on some watch parts. This chemical keeps oil from spreading. While good synthetic oils spread less, it doesn't mean they don't spread at all - epilame really makes the oil stay where it's originally put. Fix-o-drop is still used today along with state of the art synthetic watch oils.
Not using it if it's needed would mean that the camera would need more frequent servicing as the lubricants migrated from where they were needed to where they shouldn't be. |
Paul Chambre
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 06:03 am: |
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Additional information:
It's actually called epilane, not epilame, and the product name is written without dashes: Fixodrop.
If you're wondering why people don't use this stuff all the time, well, it's about $75 for 100ml! And that's the smallest bottle available. |
Glenn Middleton
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 09:05 am: |
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Paul,
Pretty sure your 'medium 100' is an epilane or 'creep barrier'. If you look at the official Canon Lubrication Charts for the A and T Series cameras plus the new FD lenses, you will see that much use is made of Canon's equivalent product. Looking at your price guide I now see why Canon stated that the product should be brushed on in minute amounts.
There is no doubt that the product worked/works. Last year I purchased an unopened 14mm f2.8L from 1985, it was completely free of 'lube creep'.I have seen 'cleaned/lubed' optics showing creep marks after only 2 or 3 years careful storage. Obviously the barrier is not reapplied in most services today. |
Henry
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 09:29 am: |
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Ya larne sumpthin' ebery day...
I had never heard of a creep barrier. Cool.
But at that price...ouch. My repair projects may have to creep for a while longer. I can certainly see why a manufacturer, or any one that gives an extended guarantee, would definitely use it.
Henry |
Dennis
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 19, 2005 - 01:30 pm: |
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Is it possible that a Leica which has been "stored" by a collector would respond to usage, and become accuurate again by the simple fact that it was meant to be used daily anyway, and the prolonged shelf life has caused it to stiffen up? |
Glenn Middleton
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 19, 2005 - 07:12 pm: |
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If the blinds have not hardened, then a few nights working the camera might free it up. However if it was mine I would clean and relube it, because it probably wanted a CLA when it was first 'stored'. |
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