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Howard
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 12:48 am: | 
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Hi Folks. I just received my second Auto S2 (supposedly working) but like my first the light metering doesn't work. I have removed the battery box to discover that the blue wire which attaches near the test switch is corroded and detached. the remainder of the wires look Ok. I am not the world's greatest solderer but the silver solder would not take to either the the tab or the wire. Does anyone know any tricks to overcome this problem. |
Roy Randall
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 03:26 am: |
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If you mean 'silver solder' you've got a problem. Silver solder is a high teperature compound totally unsuitable for electrical work. If you mean the silver coloured stuff used on electical work it's dead easy. Once you know how!
Once you can do it you wonder why you had problems before. Two things are require to make a good soldered joint, heat and cleanliness. If the wire has corroded through it will be too dirty to solder, don't even bother trying, so the first step is to shorten it back to clean bright copper. After you've done that if it is now too short to reach the terminal it must either be replaced or lengthened.
Next step is to clean up the terminal, usually a good hot soldering iron will do that quite easily. I used to teach assembly workers the art of soldering and the most frequent mistake is to try soldering at too low a temperature, leave the iron on the terminal till the solder starts to flow, when it will usually attach itself to the iron. This should leave the terminal clean enough to take the new joint. The next step is to 'tin' the freshly cut wire end, this is the part that most beginners do not carry out. 'Tinning' is simply the act of melting solder on to the wire end, trim the insulation back then apply both iron and solder to the wire and KEEP it there till the wire is coated with the solder. With that accomplished you then, and only then, bring wire and terminal together. Frequently there will be sufficient solder on the terminal and the wire to achieve a joint, if not, now apply the solder and watch till it flows. If you remove the iron too early you will achieve a weak, high resistance joint commonly referred to as a 'dry joint' that looks dull in colour as compared with a good joint.
A good idea is to practice on some lengths of wire till you've got it. Like I said, once you can do it every time you'll wonder why you couldnt before.
The major snag with a lot of soldering jobs is the need for a third hand to hold everything together, can't help you on that problem!
If you still have problems after trying all this, mail me and I'll try to help further.
Roy. |
charlie
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 06:06 am: |
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For people with shaky hands (like me) conductive epoxy solves a lot of problems. Clean the surfaces to be joined, put on a dab of the epoxy, put the surfaces together and let the epoxy cure. One source is an automotive supply store. It comes in the little kits for repairing gaps in the rear window defroster traces. I tested it by epoxying a wire on to the lead from a resistor and checking with an ohmmeter. No difference. |
Roy Randall
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 07:19 am: |
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Roy again. I've also used the conductive epoxy and as Charlie says it works well, it also works well on dmaged PC boards. BUT you will still have to remove the corrosion or risk a build up of resistance, and learning to solder well is a useful skill. I forgot to state in my first post the the soldering iron must also be free of corrosion, filing and tinning useually solves that. |
Howard
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 07:17 am: |
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Thanks very much Roy and Charlie. I appreciate the advice. I think I might try the epoxy method, it sounds as if it might be the answer. I have trimmed the lead back a bit but the wire seems very delicate. Also the wire is very thin and only appears to have a few strands, still I'll perservere. I'd really like to get one of these working on auto. What is frustrating is that the battery check button works on both. |
WernerJB
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 08:56 am: |
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Well, Howard, I own several K Auto S2's by now and none of them was fully operational on arrival, all of them (!) had wiring problems, on one camera the faulty battery case wiring almost gave me the creeps because it seemed ok when sitting on my desk and refused to work when taking pictures. So I decided to take the bull by its horns and gave the wiring a complete overhaul. I found that if the battery case contacts have come in touch with fumes or liquids from a dying mercury battery, soldering is difficult (I do nor know why this is so), but still possible if you follow Roy's advice. If I were you I would try to restore everything as close to the original design as possible. What makes you think that epoxy will stick to a metal surface that does not allow soldering tin to join contacts and wires? |
charles stobbs
Tinkerer
Username: Charlie
Post Number: 1
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 10:21 am: |
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When using epoxy I cleaned off existing corosion with white vinegar and some scraping. It has continued to work for a couple of years. I don't know enough about soldering to be able to compare relative needed standards of cleanliness. I felt more confident wielding epoxy than a hot soldering iron. |
Howard Powne
Tinkerer
Username: Howpow
Post Number: 1
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 02:11 am: |
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Hi Werner. Thanks for your post. As much as I would like to replace the wiring I'm afraid it's beyond my capabilities. I'm sure that I would end up with a manual camera at best. I will however try to cut the wire back as far as I can to see if I can reach clean wire, and extend it as required. Like Charles above I feel more confident with the epoxy and will give that a try. I'll post the results. |
Howard Powne
Tinkerer
Username: Howpow
Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 02:13 am: |
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Hi Charles. Thanks for the info, I'll give it a try. |
Roland Schregle
Tinkerer
Username: Ganjatron
Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 05:57 pm: |
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Hi Howard,
I agree with Werner that you should give the S2 a wiring overhaul -- that's what I had to do with mine. In my case I had to completely disassemble the shutter anyway (the aperture blades closed down completely and jammed it after the aperture retaining spring somehow snapped), so I redid the wiring in the process.
As you point out, the wires are *very* thin and most likely brittle to the point where they disintegrate by themselves, as they were in my S2. This appears to be a common problem with these cameras. The wiring going to the CdS cell is no fun to replace: it goes right through the shutter. This is certainly not a job for a beginner. I hope this won't be necessary in your case (it inevitably snapped on mine as I was dismantling the shutter).
On the positive side, I have to say my Auto S2 has aged far more gracefully than my other cameras (Rolleis 'n' Minoxes 'n' stuff). The Copal shutter's timing is still very accurate, as is the built in Sekonic meter. Pretty remarkable for a 40 year old camera!
Good luck!
--Roland |
Howard Powne
Tinkerer
Username: Howpow
Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 06:47 pm: |
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Hi Roland. Talking about cameras that age gracefully, I've recently picked up three Minolta Hi-Matics, two 7s's and one 9,(Seiko Shutters)and the wiring in all three appears to be perfect. Pop in a battery and the metering fires up perfectly. Cosmetically the hold up pretty well too. Two had sticky shutters but that is something that I can handle competently, so now all three are working perfectly. Put a film through the Hi-Matic 9 the other day and was very impressed with the results. I also have a Konica Auto S which produces excellent results, but I will push on with the S2's. |
Werner J. Becker
Tinkerer
Username: Wernerjb
Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 03:43 am: |
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Howard, I feel sooner or later any tinkerer has to graduate, that is to say dismantle a camera to the bone, including replacement or straightening of aperture and/or shutter blades, put in new wires, etc. which I had to do with my first Hi-M 9 (not an easy one I must confess). I never got it functional again. But I took my chance and learned repairing cameras the hard way.
Over and again, experience does not come by pondering things over.
I was once told by one more experienced tinkerer that even if you end up in a dead end with an unfinished repair or lose a camera because you break something during fiddling around with parts you learn to develop your very own way into the repair matter. You will have to and finally be able to do unusual work: polish metal surfaces, cut glass and turn it into "frosted glass", solder wires, recement lenses, maybe even reinvent the wheel!
I was told that there is something like "black wire corrosion" in mercury battery driven circuits but I know that the "explanation" behind the words do not sufficiently cover all the reasons why wires tend to disintegrate, become brittle or otherwise cause problems.
Some Canonets, for example, never fail, others are prone to quit a dozen times a day no matter how careful you handle them. In many respects cameras are like people: you'll never know what's up!
Last week I repaired a shitty el cheapo camera (N Brillant 600: no RF, but interesting primitive "programmed" flywheel shutter with some internal features of Oly 35 RC/RD - winding/cocking mech - I wonder who made them) just for the fun of it: it works, you can even take pictures with it (which I will not do again).
Maybe it is I feel like I'm on an up when I do things like that, let me encourage you to try it out yourself, it's a great feeling, W. |
Jan Dvorak
Tinkerer
Username: Jan_dvorak
Post Number: 1
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 08:46 am: |
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Regarding Howard's comment on the Hi-Matics - that has been my experience as well.I have not come across a Hi-Matic with bad wiring yet, but about 50% of Konica S-2's suffer from this mallaise.
Jan |
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