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Kkl122002
Tinkerer
Username: Kkl122002
Post Number: 28
Registered: 05-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 03:39 am: | 
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Hello everyone,
I need some advice and suggestion of lubricant used for leaf shutter. I have clean my prominent shutter and I need to relubricate it. However, I don't know which one I should use.
Can anyone give me some suggestion? And, with the product's band name?
Thank you very much. |
Rick_oleson
Tinkerer
Username: Rick_oleson
Post Number: 308
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 04:08 am: |
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I don't lubricate them at all if I can avoid it. If it doesn't run smoothly when clean, first clean it again to make sure ... then if it still needs something to smooth it up, a tiny drop of very light oil in only 3 places: (1) the shaft of the rocker pallet; (2) the shaft of the star wheel; and (3) the teeth of the star wheel - should take care of it. If it doesn't, you have another problem, not a lubrication issue.
For the oil, you can use a watch oil from micro-tools, an "ultra light" oil from a hobby shop, or a light gun oil. Or, you can separate WD-40 by shooting a little bit into a small cup, allowing the solids to settle out for a few days, and skimming the clear oil off the top. All of these work. |
Kkl122002
Tinkerer
Username: Kkl122002
Post Number: 29
Registered: 05-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 06:11 am: |
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Thank you.
Actually, I don't know the name of the parts inside the leaf shutter. Can you point them out for me?
What is 'light gun oil'? Can you give me some examples?
I went to Shun Shui Po today. Shun Shui Po is a place where Hong Kong residents can find almost all possible supplies. But I still can not find the correct lubricant due to I don't know their common name in Chinese. I hope you can give me the band name so that I can find it easier. |
Pablomartinez
Tinkerer
Username: Pablomartinez
Post Number: 74
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 22, 2007 - 04:03 pm: |
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I use the oil that come with the sewing machines or the oil that comes with the electric razors;
This oil is very light and completly transparent.
Use the smallest ammount of oil that you can. |
Paul_ron
Tinkerer
Username: Paul_ron
Post Number: 45
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 02:58 am: |
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The leaves themselves don't get any oil. I've rubbed some graphite on en in problem shutters with good results but it's just a very light rub of the stuff. Too much and it makes an awful dusty mess.
If you have a music store in your area, get the oil used on trumpets called valve oil. It's the same stuff sold by Micro Tools AKA NYOil (it's made in Queens NY thus called NYOil) |
Rick_oleson
Tinkerer
Username: Rick_oleson
Post Number: 310
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 07:44 am: |
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Look here:
http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/28c-detail.jpg
http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-55.html
you probably don't have gun oil in Hong Kong. You need to use the thinnest oil you can find, IF you use any oil at all.
do not try to thin a heavier oil with solvent, the solvent will evaporate and the oil will thicken over time and stop the shutter. |
Kkl122002
Tinkerer
Username: Kkl122002
Post Number: 30
Registered: 05-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 03:27 pm: |
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I can not find gun oil in Hong kong, since we don't have gun. And it seems that even the hobby shop do not have 'ultra-linght' oil either. I am still searching graphite and valve oil (/nyoil)
. I believe it might in somewhere where I have not tried to find.
The Lubricant that I can find now are :
1.WD-40
2.3 in One
3.3 in One pro. silicone spray lubricant
4.3 in One pro. white lithium grease
5. unknown sewing machine lunricant
which one should I use ?
And, thank you Rick for pointing out the posiition. |
Rick_oleson
Tinkerer
Username: Rick_oleson
Post Number: 312
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 04:27 pm: |
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Start with WD-40. Spray some of it into a small container (a clear glass jar is best), and leave it for several days until there is a cloudy layer at the bottom and a clear layer at the top. Then, dip into the top for the clear oil without disturbing the solids that have settled to the bottom.
I have used WD-40 this way for camera shutters for many years, it works great.
Just remember: DO NOT, for any reason, spray WD-40 into a camera; and do not use the WD-40 directly without settling the solids out first. |
Kkl122002
Tinkerer
Username: Kkl122002
Post Number: 31
Registered: 05-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 05:42 am: |
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I ave already placed the WD-40 in a semi-transparent film container and wait for 3 days. I can see a cloudy yellow layer on the bottom. But I still can not see the clear layer.
Rick, do you know how long does it take to get the clear oil layer?
By the way, can the 3 in One (R) products used on lubrication of camera? |
Rick_oleson
Tinkerer
Username: Rick_oleson
Post Number: 314
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 03:15 am: |
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3-in-One makes a number of products, they may have something suitable. The oils that I have seen in that brand, though, are too heavy for this application.
If the WD-40 is becoming more cloudy at the bottom, keep waiting: this should continue until the top looks quite clear, with perhaps a slight yellow tint. Eventually, the clear layer will be more than half of the total volume. |
Kkl122002
Tinkerer
Username: Kkl122002
Post Number: 32
Registered: 05-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 06:12 pm: |
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The 3-in-One, without any specified, that I have mentioned in my previous post is this one : http://www.wd40.com/PressRoom/StockImages/gifs_xl/3in1-p_3oz_multioil.gif
Can it be used as Lubricant for leaf shutter? |
Paul_ron
Tinkerer
Username: Paul_ron
Post Number: 46
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 04:25 am: |
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Go to a music store and get the oil brass instruments use such on trombones n trumpets n French horns. It's the SAME stuff as camera oil AKA watch oil or NYOil or any other brand it's sold under. It's the lightest oil you can get. |
Ben_hutcherson
Tinkerer
Username: Ben_hutcherson
Post Number: 53
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 03:17 pm: |
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As an aside, I did a little bit of experimenting today with WD-40.
I found that after spinning in a centrifuge for 5 minutes, the two layers separated quite nicely, leaving an amber colored supernatant and a white, waxy pellet.
I ran some analysis on the supernatant, and believe at this point that it consists mostly of only a few isomers of straight chain or slightly branched alkanes.
I'm going to run some more analysis tomorrow to see if I can figure out how many and just what those component isomers are, however at this point it appears as though the sample I examined was in fact a very highly refined oil. |
Kkl122002
Tinkerer
Username: Kkl122002
Post Number: 39
Registered: 05-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 07:05 am: |
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I, finally, found the valve oil from a small music instrument supply store. The fluid looks clear with very pale yellow colour. Its viscosity is nearly identical to water.
And, does anyone want to know how to adjust the RF of the Voigtlander Prominent I ? I have successfully did it and tested ~~ |
Paul_ron
Tinkerer
Username: Paul_ron
Post Number: 47
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 05:48 pm: |
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Please post how it's done just to document your experiance in the event anyone else has the same question in the future.
Glad to hear you found the oil. I don't understand why the color, but that won't make any difference since it has the correct waterlike viscosity. |
Kkl122002
Tinkerer
Username: Kkl122002
Post Number: 40
Registered: 05-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 29, 2007 - 10:07 pm: |
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I see.
I will post it on my topic. You will find it in https://kyp.hauslendale.com/classics/forum/messages/2/9706.html?1183012565
Adjust Range finder of the Voigtlander Prominent. |
Ben_hutcherson
Tinkerer
Username: Ben_hutcherson
Post Number: 54
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 03:42 pm: |
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Follow-up on WD-40 as a lubricant-
My school was kind enough to let me use their NMR, IR, and GC-Mass Spec for analysis. Proton NMR indicated that there were nothing but single bonds present, meaning, essentially, that the oil in WD-40 contains only alkanes. IR confirmed this.
GC-Mass Spec showed no less than 100 different isomers, however roughly 95% were in the C9-C14 range.
There seemed to be no other impurities that could potentially cause problems. It seems to just be a very high grade lubricating oil. In fact, the IR spectrum was about an 80% match for Sigma-Aldrich brand high-grade vacuum pump oil.
I thought you all might find it interesting to know just what's exactly in the oil you're using. |
Paul_ron
Tinkerer
Username: Paul_ron
Post Number: 49
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 04:46 pm: |
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Ben how about analysing the oil I get from the music store sold as valve/key oil used to lube trumpet valves? From what I see it is exactly the same stuff Micro Tools sells as NYOil AKA watch oil that many professional camera repairmen use. |
Ben_hutcherson
Tinkerer
Username: Ben_hutcherson
Post Number: 55
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 05:03 pm: |
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Paul,
I'll see what I can do.
I'll have to do some other preliminary testing, though. Injecting an oil with too high of a viscosity into the gas chromatagraph(GC) can ruin the column, and replacement columns are $500+. The GC-Mass Spec gives the most data, however both the Nuclear Magnetic Resonance(NMR) and Infrared can give some valuable information about the quality and properties of oil.
We are supposed to be getting a very nice liquid chromatagraph in the next month, which might be able to provide some data if it proves to have too much viscosity for the GC.
Anyway, I'll let you know if and when I find out anything. |
Paul_ron
Tinkerer
Username: Paul_ron
Post Number: 50
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 02:51 am: |
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The valve oil has the viscosity of water, even lighter than WD40. |
Kkl122002
Tinkerer
Username: Kkl122002
Post Number: 42
Registered: 05-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 04:22 am: |
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I accidentally dropped a drop of valve oil in my hand. My feeling is :
It is very similar to water, except it has oil(/petroleum) 's properties (the grease /oil feeling).
Ben, I am quite interested to know about your job. Are you working in a laboratory? |
Ethostech
Tinkerer
Username: Ethostech
Post Number: 72
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 13, 2007 - 07:53 am: |
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For whatever it is worth.
Oil - even on the shutter-blade heel pivots is not good news.
If the shutter blades are being removed - then polish them with a cotton-bud whch is tipped with fine graphite powder (from a locksmiths store). The pivot pins need only the same treatment. Make sure there are no residual specks of graphite - otherwise these may find their way on to an optical surface and portray as "sparklers".
A slow dragging leaf shutter is usually a result of congealed grease on the activator ring. German manufacturers always greased the activator rings whereas the Japanese learned from such mistakes and assemble dry - or with a little graphite only.
Congealed grease on an activator ring responds to flood cleaning and repeated exercisiong of the shutter until all is free.
You would of course have to remove the lens elements in order to flood-clean. |
