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Filmguy
Tinkerer
Username: Filmguy
Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 12:46 pm: | 
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This question relates to a Nikon F100. However, the lens mount and associated mechanisms go back to the '70s, so I'm hoping the moderator won't consider this OT.
My question has to do with removal of the stainless lens mount ring. The aperture tab ring underneath it is sticking, and I can tell there's somethng wrong with the spring that pulls it back to the home position. It's weak when I push the tab by hand, and it makes a "springy" sound when I mount or dismount a lens. As an aside, I bought this body used, but I don't see signs of previous disassembly. Even under fairly high magnification, the screwheads look pristine. Also, the S/N of this camera is one of the most recent I've seen, and there are very few signs of use.
Is there anything tricky about removing the mounting ring and associated parts? I want to inspect the internal mechanism, but not if it involves a level of complexity likely to cause damage. My only alternative is to send it to Nikon, and while I'm not opposed to that in general, I hate to spend $200 if this might be a simple disassembly and repair.
FWIW, my skills include major disassembly, repair and alignment of numerous '60s model fixed-lens rangefinders. Much of the work I photographed and posted here a few years ago. I have the basic tools for this sort of work, but I'm leery of learning SLR repair with this particular body. Any assistance from someone in the know will be very much appreciated.
Happy shooting! |
M_currie
Tinkerer
Username: M_currie
Post Number: 68
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 03:39 pm: |
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I'm looking at an F100 here. It looks as if you should be able just to unscrew the flange, but I'm not sure how much more will come off when you've done that. It's somewhat similar to the old F (which I also have here for comparison), and on that one you have to go pretty deep, and actually remove the mirror box, before you can get access to the deeper mechanism of that lever. I have an F in pieces here, so it's pretty easy to see what's what there. If you can get to the mechanism, I don't think it would prove too difficult to figure out what's binding.
Before going too far, I'd check very carefully to see if the arm is centered in the slot from which it emerges. It is not too uncommon for the arm to become bent or twisted, if a lens is installed wrong, or if a lens with its stop screw missing is rotated past the lock position. That could cause it to bind. If it's just bent, it might be possible to tweak it back into line with small needle nose pliers or forceps.
Beyond that, though, I think you're likely to find that it's a difficult part to access even if you do take the front flange off, unless the F100 has a two-piece mirror box with a front that comes off. It's hard to tell looking at it, and for some odd reason I don't think my wife would be happy if I took a screwdriver to her F100 to find out, so you're on your own there. I don't think you'll get in to too much trouble just unscrewing the flange to see what happens next.
Below is a quick and dirty shot of what the lever is supposed to look like. If it's not in that position and at that angle, consider it bent.
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Filmguy
Tinkerer
Username: Filmguy
Post Number: 4
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 05:29 pm: |
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I'm sure you're wife won't mind a small sacrifice like this. Just tell her it's for the better good, and that thousands of camera enthusiasts are eagerly awaiting the results. 
Seriously, thanks for the info, but I don't think the lever is bent. I have a number of other Nikons for comparison, including a F100. I'm not sure about the mirror box, but it does look as though the black plastic bezel around the lens flange might have to be removed to gain access to the aperture mechanism. That means the "M-S-C" focus control knob has to come off. I assume it's a press fit, but don't know how easy it is to remove. My concern, of course, is the possiblity of cosmetic damage to the bezel and knob.
You know, I've just remembered that I have one of those awful PDF service manuals for a N6006 somewhere. It takes forever to find anything, because it can't be searched by keyword. However, I might be able to find a disassembly drawing or instruction set. Like the F100, the N6006 has a plastic front bezel with a rotary focus control switch.
Incidentally, I wouldn't be so hesitant to remove the flange, but I seem to remember a question along these same lines being posted somewhere in the past. If memory serves, the author had tried to remove the flange screws with everything except a jackhammer, and couldn't get them to budge.
I guess I could try to disassemble a less expensive body if all else fails. Still, it would sure be nice if someone who's done this before would chime in.
Thanks again! |
M_currie
Tinkerer
Username: M_currie
Post Number: 69
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 06:15 am: |
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Sorry to say, I don't think even my very tolerant and patient wife would fall for that one. I've taken wrenches to her Manfrotto tripod for just that purpose, but the F100 is just a bit beyond that!
some of those screws can be mighty tight, and I wouldn't even start the job without the correct bit, which is probably a "cross" rather than "philips" head.
It just occurred to me to look on my own computer, where I tend to stash and hoard manuals of one sort or another, and find that I have an exploded parts list for the F100. The piece behind the flange is open at the sides, but unfortunately, the casting definitely includes the frame around the focusing screen. It's kind of L-shaped. I'm pretty sure you'll need to go very deep to get past that front flange! I am about to head off for some other work this morning. If I have time, I'll post that PDF to my box.net account later, and give you the link. Nag me if I forget. |
Filmguy
Tinkerer
Username: Filmguy
Post Number: 7
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 04:27 pm: |
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Well, I took the bayonet off an EM body last night, just for practice. The mechanism that moves the aperture ring is somewhat different than that shown in my N6006 manual (I believe the latter is similar to the F100). Rather than a spring, the EM uses a tensioned nylon gear that rides just inside the ring. The ring has teeth formed on a portion of its inner circumference that mate with the gear. As soon as I pulled off the ring, the gear went "spurnk!" and lost all its tension. I had to wind it back up with a toothpick and awl, two or three teeth at a time, in order to reassemble the EM in working condition.
That wasn't so bad, actually, but it did reveal a more significant issue: Whatever mechanism is used to tension the gear isn't visible. That means access to the tensioning mechanism would require peeling the leatherette away from both sides of the bayonet and removing the plate that the bayonet mounts to. Someone on another forum has informed me that the situation is the same for the F100, and that opens up a new can of worms. I don't want to experiment on the F100 at this level, so I've decided to send it to Nikon for the work.
Thanks for taking time to try and help me with this. Enjoy that F100 - my experience isn't the norm, and they are otherwise extraodinarily fine cameras! |
M_currie
Tinkerer
Username: M_currie
Post Number: 70
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 06:30 pm: |
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Just for your information, here is the parts list for the F100, which shows pretty clearly how the thing is put together, and how the castings are laid out. It's a 4.16 MB PDF file.
http://www.box.net/shared/hff5kx2cuu |
Filmguy
Tinkerer
Username: Filmguy
Post Number: 9
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 08:52 pm: |
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Thanks - got it!
Hmmm, that's very interesting. The aperture ring doesn't look at all as I expected, and it's definitely not like the N6006. In fact, it doesn't appear as though the tensioning mechanism for the aperture ring is at all difficult to reach. Still, looking at the diagram, I see that the leatherette has to be peeled back on both sides to reach all the bezel screws. I hadn't realized until now that the bezel has flanges that extend underneath the covering. That's something of a problem, as I've never been entirely satisfied with any of the adhesives I've tried for gluing leatherette to camera bodies.
Also, if the back side of the bezel itself is damaged, replacement might be a problem. The bezel carries the body's serial number.
I think this all firms up my decision to let Nikon handle it. Your help with the PDF is very much appreciated - it was definitely above and beyond the call. I hope I can return the favor someday.
Happy shooting! |
Filmguy
Tinkerer
Username: Filmguy
Post Number: 14
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 03, 2007 - 11:16 pm: |
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Well, I just received the body back from Nikon this afternoon. Dealing with the factory service center has been a frustrating and exceedingly unpleasant experience. Had I known this would happen, I would have just sold the body at a loss and gone on.
I'll skip the details, but regarding the repairs, "fit and finish" workmanship is well below what I consider acceptable. In addition, Nikon performed the repair by installing a used and visibly worn replacement part. The part carries the body's S/N, and the one they installed is many years older than mine. The body I sent them was one of the latest examples of the F100, but it now has the appearance of one of the oldest.
Given this experience, I'm strongly considering ditching anything that might conceivably be limited to service at a Nikon facility (i.e. all newer AF bodies like the F4, F100, F5, etc.). At least manual bodies like the FE2 and F3 can be repaired by skilled techs at independent shops. In hindsight, I regret having sold off some of those bodies during the last couple years. Live and learn. |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 185
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 09:25 am: |
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Whilst I am unable to comment on the quality of your repair, I think you are lucky, that the factory service center had collected a supply of used/scrap parts for your camera. The sourcing of spares for discontinued models is obviously a problem for many factory service centers. The alternative action is for them to discontinue all support for those models.
I suppose at the end of the day, trying to be loyal to your customers is a no win situation. Stop supporting your older models and some people will complain, however keeping them working with used/reclaimed parts will not be the course of action some people would expect from the official service center. |
M_currie
Tinkerer
Username: M_currie
Post Number: 80
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2007 - 09:41 am: |
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With regard to the last couple of posts:
First of all, you might well get better results in the future from independent repair places, especially as your equipment ages. I'm willing to bet that the local camera guys I go to would have performed the job as well or better, even if they also had to utilize scrounged parts.
The F100 is only recently discontinued, and there must even be a few still under warrantee, so I do not see any justification for Nikon not having enough new parts available. If a manufacturer shows such little respect for those who own even slightly older equipment, how can they expect them to continue to pay premium prices when it comes time to replace it? |
Filmguy
Tinkerer
Username: Filmguy
Post Number: 15
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 08:23 pm: |
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>I think you are lucky, that the factory service center had collected a supply of used/scrap parts for your camera.
Glenn, I purchased this camera only recently, and I paid a premium to get one with a very late serial number in like-new condition. Nikon has severely devalued the camera on both counts, and I don't consider that lucky. I can also assure you that this procsss didn't result from any sense of loyalty to customers; their methodology was based on processing the job quickly and finalizing the bill. There's much more to the problems I encountered than I want to discuss publicly at this time; please trust me when I say that I have more than sufficient reason to never, under any circumstances, allow Nikon factory service to ever again touch a piece of equipment that I own.
M-currie, it's not clear to me that the smaller independents can really perform repairs adequately on later bodies (F4 and up). An F4 that I no longer own suffered a defect about a year ago, and only Nikon itself was said to be capable of the repair. Even Nikon authorized centers couldn't do the work. A special machine present only at the factory-owned repair centers was required. I sold the F4 as-is, and hadn't given it another thought until now.
My experience with the center in California really does seem to imply that a big-picture solution is needed. What I mean is that I can no longer buy late model Nikon bodies like the F100, F5, etc. assuming that their value will justify factory repair cost if they break. Rather, the situation is one in which the repair cost is likely to simply be money down the tube, and will carry the camera with it.
I've pretty much decided to get rid of these later models in favor of simpler and more serviceable bodies. I was really hoping that the fast AF of my F100s would pay off for my street photography in Asia next spring, but it's a moot point now.
Oh well, at least I didn't send them a vintage rangefinder. |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 190
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 07, 2007 - 05:43 pm: |
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Filmguy,
From what you say it, appears that the official Nikon repair facility is not providing the level of service one would expect. I suspect this will continue, unless people start complaining and taking action. Here in the UK, I have had nothing but good workmanship and help from the official Nikon repair organisation. In the UK they seem to work closely with the factory, perhaps in the US there is another level of management between repairshop and factory.
It is certainly the case, that the more modern cameras from most major manufacturers, need specialised jigs and fixtures to allow certain repairs to be undertaken. So I am not surprised that the the choice of repair outlets is limited, or that more cameras are having to be returned to the factory for repair. My son's Sigma SD-10 was recently returned to the factory, for what on paper was a relatively simple repair. That is until you read the setup/adjustment procedures!
I note with interest your purchase of a late numbered body. With certain makes and models, this can lead to one purchasing a body that might be considered 'inferior' to an early numbered item. If you take the Canon A-1 as an example, the early examples have a greater number of metal parts and are much easier to disassemble than the later batches. These later bodies are full of all the cost cutting modifications, introduced during the production run. My two first batch examples are still working perfectly, even after a very hard life. However a mint looking late model purchased a few years ago, has proved to be a not as well made/durable as the early examples. |
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