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Likaleica
Tinkerer
Username: Likaleica
Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 12:56 am: | 
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I was daft enough to buy a 1937 Zeiss Ikon Contax II from an eBay dealer trading under the ID sebsandiego. BEWARE! A camera described as being in good working order arrived with a broken self-timer. Worse followed. The shutter jammed completely after a couple of weeks. Repeated attempts to contact the seller have failed - leaving me with a useless camera and a large repair bill.
My advice is to give sebsandiego a very wide berth |
Dgillette4
Tinkerer
Username: Dgillette4
Post Number: 106
Registered: 04-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 10:10 am: |
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That's my expirence with e-bay too, I was scammed there, once I registered e-mail came claiming I didn't send product. Oh well live and learn. I will never deal with them again. Don |
Rj_
Tinkerer
Username: Rj_
Post Number: 65
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 11:51 am: |
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Hi there,
I'm sorry to hear of your news.
Your Contax II is probably repairable, provided you haven't done what I've done to my chassis as a result of a headless screw pin in the chassis.
The self-timer is easily resolved by peeling off the front leatherette and working it from there.
Rick Oleson has some of the best DIY notes you could ever wish for if you are hoping to restore yours.
Otherwise, a useless camera is usually a fine piece of equipment after a large repair bill. Failing that, there are plenty of restorers who are looking for a Contax shutter chassis..
Kind regards,
RJ |
Wernerjb
Tinkerer
Username: Wernerjb
Post Number: 209
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 02, 2007 - 12:34 am: |
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Last time I was out on a radio fleamarket some fifteen years ago I felt surrounded by spivs and dishonest strutters. I finally gave up radio repair because you cannot avoid those dodgy people when looking for spare parts. In my eyes the same is true, although still to a lesser degree, when one is peeking at ebay, it is no wonder people often refer to it as evilbay. With people you can never be sure, only one thing is certain, and that is sooner than later you will be cheated.
In auctions in which high-priced articles, collector's items or rare gadgets are sold the probabilty that one is taken in is high.
Most people (from a statistician's perespective) at ebay seem trustworthy, but there is a fast growing number of deceits (my impression). A seller's supposedly good reputation is often just reflecting a general tendency of making the best of it: there is honour among thieves. Who wants a negative feedback? |
Mndean
Tinkerer
Username: Mndean
Post Number: 34
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 02, 2007 - 02:11 am: |
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I'm not surprised that ebay is a minefield for many, especially in camera equipment. I've been reasonably lucky, I suppose, in that in ~150 transactions (only 1/3 photo-related), I've only been cheated 4 times, the last on a lens that only cost me $15 including shipping, and was likely in bad shape from drop damage and a bad repair. Up until 2005, I'd never had a bad transaction, but lately it's gotten much more difficult there. In my experience, most cheating has been simple - they just don't send anything at all and blame the delivery service. With camera equipment we have to deal with the "naive" seller who claims to know nothing of equipment (but often sells nothing else), and misrepresents said equipment. It is so easy for dishonest sellers to get away with fraud that I'm shocked it's not worse than it is over there. I've gotten a lot of good equipment there, so I can't be too unhappy with it, but the gotchas are always there, waiting. |
Likaleica1
Tinkerer
Username: Likaleica1
Post Number: 7
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 03, 2007 - 03:31 am: |
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Thanks for all of that and some good advice on repair. Sebsandiego did eventually reply - but only when I threatened to put the camera back on eBay with a paragraph naming him and detailing his disreputable behaviour. He did not however express any regret for what happened, or make any offer of money back. Thanks a bunch.
I have found a chap called Steve Ash in the UK who is a Contax repairer. He can fix the shutter for £50 ($100 USD) which seems worth it. But I paid top dollar for the camera (£130 or $260 USD)BODY ONLY so it will be one of the more expensive Contax IIs around.
This sebsandiego guy has really gotten under my skin as my American friends would put it....another thing I hate about sebsandiego is that he splits vintage cameras from their original lenses and even their leather ever ready cases - purely to maximise his profit. He has broken up literally hundreds of nice cameras in this way and I think it is wrong. Recently he split a very nice rare Canon Leica copy from its lens. I find that sort of greed unforgivable. What do other collectors think ? |
Fiftyfifty
Tinkerer
Username: Fiftyfifty
Post Number: 19
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 03, 2007 - 01:33 pm: |
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I have also had dealings with the said person, I sold him a number of photographic items, he e-mailed me to say that one of the lenses had fungus in it,I asked if could return the lens and I would send him a replacement the next day,I sent the replacement lens, still not received the other one back after months, and does not reply to e-mails. Lesson..learnt. |
Rj_
Tinkerer
Username: Rj_
Post Number: 66
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 09:11 am: |
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"I have found a chap called Steve Ash in the UK who is a Contax repairer. He can fix the shutter for £50 ($100 USD) which seems worth it. But I paid top dollar for the camera (£130 or $260 USD)BODY ONLY so it will be one of the more expensive Contax IIs around."
How could I forget! Thanks for reminding me about Steve.
I did send my Contax II to him after I gave up repairing due to lack of time. It came back in a worse condition, however that was more to do with the post damaging it en route.
I'll try Steve again - thanks for the reminder. Although it's an easy option to get someone else to repair, I doubt I'll have my Contax II in any position other than the 100 pieces it currently is in.... |
Filmguy
Tinkerer
Username: Filmguy
Post Number: 17
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 09:24 am: |
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The way to handle incidents like this is to send the item back by Priority Mail with a tracking number. As soon as the item arrives, file for a refund with PayPal based on the item being being substantially not as described. If PayPal balks (rare once the seller has the item in his possession), file for a credit against PayPal as merchant with your CC company. Of course, this all presumes you used PayPal and a CC, not an instrument equivalent to cash. |
Cromag
Tinkerer
Username: Cromag
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 10:35 am: |
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WOW! All this talk about ebay is not good.
I have a film camera complete kit up on ebay right now. It is in great shape and includes the best lens I've ever had the pleasure of using. (though I have not tried more than a dozen)
Anyway, I can ship it any way you prefer if you pay the cost. It's a great camera package for people who like film cameras, like you guys seem to..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160183962167&ssPageName= STRK:MESE:IT&ih=006 |
Steve_can
Tinkerer
Username: Steve_can
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 11:05 pm: |
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I always look at all sellers feedback and as a rule of thumb won't buy from anyone under 97% positive(that's even pushing it). Also I'll generally stick with sellers with only high sales numbers and stay away from occasional sellers. The combination of the two seems to assure a good transaction. Yes some have ruined the experience for others and it's unfortunate. When I joined ebay in 03 I got some raw deals but sucked it up and got a feel for the good people out there. Good Luck. |
Bill_alexander
Tinkerer
Username: Bill_alexander
Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 12:58 pm: |
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Just to rant..One of the Evil-Pay sellers split
a auction up on a camera the case and the accessories and manual..all started at @9.99
what a a.., could have packaged it up..but he was trying to maximise his profit..also love the guys taht claim they cannot test..? how much is a roll of 35mm film these day? Nuff Said B>A |
Rick11949
Tinkerer
Username: Rick11949
Post Number: 12
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 09:35 pm: |
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Question the seller before you bid/buy a camera on Ebay. Ebay is going down the tubes, it used to be just individuals selling their old treasures, now you have people selling the contents of estate sales. Beware cameras coming from the south, I'd swear some I received were in the Flood. Beware the line "I have no way of testing it", or "don't know anything about it"
It does not take skill to wind and fire a shutter or look in a viewfinder or lens for fungus. Then after you receive a damaged camera that was listed in perfect working order, the seller won't reply to your email. The final blow is you can't leave negative feedback because the seller will do the same for you ruining your record. Ebay won't do a thing about it, they are making their money. Enough said.
Happy Holidays everyone! |
Turnergande
Tinkerer
Username: Turnergande
Post Number: 35
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 12:30 pm: |
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All this talk of bad sellers but one should consider fact that many buyers are a real pain even for the best of sellers. Buyers often have too high expectations even on a bargain purchase. As a seller I normally sell apparently good working cameras 'as is' no refund, no return then describe it's good & bad attributes as best possible. Even so, I occasionally have to deal with a buyer who seems to enjoy 'wrapping me (seller) around an axle'. Then I go the extra mile to satisfy 'an always right' customer hoping to avoid for one, a negative feedback. So, the buyer / seller issues work both ways on eBay (like every where else I suppose). As a frequent & long term buyer on eBay I must have about 95% overall success rate with purchases but yes, you need to be careful, ask questions, and expect an item you might need to improve upon. I have scored so many great deals on eBay described 'parts cameras' that have turned out to work fine or need minor tweaks. Accept the fact that eBay is like Las Vegas gambling and roll the dice. Over time and many buys your odds should improve. Bid wiser & smarter. Enough said. |
Orkneylemur
Tinkerer
Username: Orkneylemur
Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 07:01 pm: |
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Hi all!
I registered hoping to take advantage of the wealth of knowledge and experience in this forum. However something more urgent caught my attention: forum members with unhappy experiences with unscrupulous sellers. Mainly the complaints centered around eBay but I even noticed one "beware the south" comment. As a scrupulous e-bay seller from the deep South let me say "Y'all stop now ya hear?" Statistically, eBay sellers are honest people who would rather take a loss than take advantage of a buyer. eBay has no (zero) tolerance for sellers who cheat. If you haven't reported these offenses, I'm begging you to do so now. If you need help with the how to, please post and I'll steer you in the right direction. eBay has an awsome legal staff which has caused many an eCrook to do some jail time. As for the Southern jab all I can say is "Y'all act like you got some smarts!" I'll save my camera question for another post.
Great forum everyone! Keep up the good work!
Ork |
Orkneylemur
Tinkerer
Username: Orkneylemur
Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2007 - 07:20 pm: |
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Addendum to my previous post:
eBay promotes buyer protection in a number of ways one of which is teaching buyers to make informed choices about the merchandise and the seller. I highly encourage all to take advantage of this free knowledge. Also...
As I scanned some more posts I noticed one apparently from an eBay seller which sounded very much like advertising. I don't know what this forum's policy on that is but I respectfully suggest that it's not a good idea. Another way bad sellers misbehave is abusing forums such as this. (I do not suggest the poster in question is anything but honest) Even with perfectly legit. sellers if the word gets out you may be overwhelmed. Personally, as an eBay seller who often sells photographic items, I would feel uncomfortable even making reference to anything I currently had for sale. But that's me.
Now I'll sit down and shut up!
Ork |
Thuggins
Tinkerer
Username: Thuggins
Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 03:30 pm: |
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Just my two cents. The observation that ebay is like Vegas is dead on. I've gotten great deals there and I've gotten scammed. That's the nature of the beast when you buy things you can't physically handle, and trust sellers to be honest and responsible.
I must take exception with the claim that ebay "promotes buyer protection..". I'd be curious to know the logic behind this, as it has not been my experience at all! You are definately on your own with ebay - they will do NOTHING for you if you are scammed. Why should they? They make their money from sellers, not buyers. It is in their best interests to protect high volume sellers at the expense of low volume buyers. |
Fiftyfifty
Tinkerer
Username: Fiftyfifty
Post Number: 22
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 02:26 am: |
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Just to follow on from the post by Thuggins, are you suggesting that Buyers should pay the E-Bay fees and not the Sellers. May be that the Buyer should pay the fees when they are happy with thier purchase? |
Bomobob
Tinkerer
Username: Bomobob
Post Number: 16
Registered: 10-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 12:55 pm: |
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I'm convinced that a lot of people selling cameras on ebay really don't know a thing about cameras. If a knob turns, it "seems to be in working order". I bought a Yashica GSN off a guy who said it was fully functional, working, tested, blah blah blah. It was a sweet deal, as it came with the extra lenses as well. Well, it was dead as a doorknob. Battery contacts looked like they were made of opal. I cleaned them, but still no life. Opened the camera, and connected a power supply across the terminals...completely dead. Probably hadn't worked for years. The guy played hard to get, and I had to go through ebay to get my money back, but I finally did. As a footnote, the guy is gone now, but his last half dozen feedbacks all have the word "crook" in them.
But honestly, how is one to know? I figure if someone has close to 100% positive feedback, and mostly deals in cameras, that's about as good as the odds get. |
Pablomartinez
Tinkerer
Username: Pablomartinez
Post Number: 88
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 10:06 am: |
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I never had any problem buying cameras on eBay. Normally you get a camera that is in worst condition than expected but, as far as you know it in advance, that's fine.
The worst that has happened to me is a refusal to sell the object. I bought a Kyocera Polaroid camera for 10 euros and the guy simply told me that it was broken and he would not sell it to me. I told him that I did not care that it was broken, that I wanted to get the camera anyways and he could not care less!!! |
Frankl
Tinkerer
Username: Frankl
Post Number: 38
Registered: 09-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 12:37 pm: |
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I got a Balda, Baldix 6X6 on Ebay and, from the photograph, I could tell the camera was kinda rough but that was OK. What I couldn't see, because of the angle and lighting in the "shot", was that it didn't have a lens. I could see the bellows extended and it never occured to me that the lens was not there. When I got it, it was obvious. I contacted the seller and he replied that he "didn't know anything about cameras and that I should have asked if the lens was there".... He "got me".... My point being, if there is ANY DOUBT AT ALL,.... ASK. I still buy stuff on Ebay but I also ask questions I would have never thought were necessary in the past. I particularly like the "answers" that say everything except the point I was asking about... 
Frank. |
Alex
Tinkerer
Username: Alex
Post Number: 45
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 01:48 pm: |
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I once bought an old Agfa folder from an Ebay seller, who utterly lied about its condition. The lens wasn't crystal clear, it was opaque white. Really, truly opaque. The shutter wasn't 'working', it was jammed. It wasn't 'focussing freely', the front element was spinning as the thread lubricant had solidified. It was an appalling mess. And it wasn't an uninformed seller -- he traded in cameras and claimed he'd bought this batch from a visit to a German camera fair. At first, I figured I'd put the £24 loss down to experience.
Then I made use of this very camera repair community. Using the experience of others, freely given here, I disassembled the lens entirely, and thoroughly cleaned and fully re-lubricated it. I took the shutter apart and cleaned it, and cleaned the diaphragm blades. I gave the whole thing a body and interior clean too, and reassembled it and collimated the focussing. I now had a fully working and exceptionally good looking German made 6x9 folder with a sparkling Solinar lens and beautifully working Compur ten-speed shutter. A series of test rolls showed it was working perfectly. I resold it on Ebay for £100. (The only reason I sold it was that I already had a couple of 6x6 folders with the same lens).
I routinely avoid the 'no battery to test' auctions. One such camera, a Yashica 230AF ('working when last used, no battery to test') was completely dead. He let it slip that he had a 270AF he could let me have off-auction, which did have a battery and was tested working. The 270AF and 230AF take the same battery. So he was lying about having no battery to test, and being primarily a seller of cameras, he knew what he was selling. I'm now very cautious about who I buy from. I never buy from a seller with less than 98%, but negatives themselves don't put me off, I check how the seller dealt with negative transactions, and if he was fair, I count that as a positive instead.
The advice about asking questions is sound. I never buy from the 'know nothing about it' seller either.
But just to counter these negative views of Ebay, it's worth pointing out there's a few good people there too. At least one seller I've dealt with ('rogprov') is a true classic camera enthusiast, and can be relied upon. And another seller, on learning that I was a Yashica enthusiast when I remarked on the good condition and usefulness of the AF lens I'd just bought from him, offered me, completely free but for postage, a Yashica 270AF autofocus body he had (not the rogue seller mentioned above), which had been in well used but working condition, since he figured I'd give it a good home and get the usage from it. Still another seller, from whom I'd bought a zoom lens, refunded me within a day of paying, even before sending the lens out, because he checked it and found the diaphragm blades were sticking. But if I dropped in by (turned out he lived only a few miles away), I could pick it up for free. Repairing it was easy, thanks once again to this forum. |
Dgillette4
Tinkerer
Username: Dgillette4
Post Number: 145
Registered: 04-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 08:32 pm: |
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I am still receiving e-mails from people scamming people on e-bay using my I.d from three years ago. E-bay has done nothing to clear it up. I am not allowed to buy or sell there and you know something, who needs them. They are the last web site I will ever use, not just because of the problems with scammers but because of inaction on their part. I consider e-bay to be aiding and abetting criminals. I have disuaded many from using e-bay because of their crooked uncaring nature . I use only photo.net and this site or KEH camera which I have had honest dealings with . Don |
Nitor
Tinkerer
Username: Nitor
Post Number: 1
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 03, 2008 - 10:51 am: |
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As a collector and user of classic camera's with over 35 years experience I frequently use Ebay both to buy and sell classic cameras. True there is a lot of rubbish sold, because there are individuals who buy at flea markets, garage sales etc. very cheaply and dump it on Ebay in the hope of making a buck or two, with no understanding of what they are selling. Now and then they turn up something worthwhile, its up to you the buyer to ask the right questions.
They can usually be identified fairly simply. Have they quoted the year that particular model was introduced ? Have they quoted a serial number and a full technical specification ? If not odds are they know nothing about the camera they are offering for sale. In a similar way are there several good clear photographs ? If not beware most of us genuine enthusiasts would have no problem in doing this. I always post at least six pictures showing the inside as well as the outside of any camera I offer for sale. Shutter operation, optics, focus are all checked but I cannot guarantee that everything will work for the next six months.
I do agree also with the comments that Ebay do not deal harshly enough with bad traders or non paying bidders. Try winning an auction at your local sales room and then not paying !
A lot of Ebay buyers probably have never bought at auction before, auction prices are usually about 30-40% below retail because there is no guarantee that it will work in two months time. If you believe that Ebay prices are high I have noticed that often my sales are to professional dealers who probably look for a 40-50% mark up. I often buy at local live general sale auctions, they sell anything from chain saws to toilets so they are not going to be photographic experts. I have to depend on my experience and instinct you win some, you loose some. If you find this hard to accept the stay away from both on line and live auctions, professional dealers will offer after sales and warranties but it does not come cheap ! |
Barnum
Tinkerer
Username: Barnum
Post Number: 40
Registered: 10-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 01:02 pm: |
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Hi!
In view of the many sad experiences listed, perhaps 'us folk'should stick with those we know. In other words, true collectors such as those on the forum! In any event, how can it suit any contributor to the forum, to cheat, and how often could he get away with it?
Regards to all. |
Dgillette4
Tinkerer
Username: Dgillette4
Post Number: 154
Registered: 04-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 04:00 pm: |
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Barnum: Boy did you hit the nail on the head. There has to be a lot of people being ripped off at that other place, and as far as I'm concerned I buy KEh or here. Don |
Bomobob
Tinkerer
Username: Bomobob
Post Number: 19
Registered: 10-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 12:40 pm: |
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It's all a matter of asking the right questions and looking for catch phrases.
"I don't have a battery to test it", means it's broken.
It's not just cameras. I want to sell an old lamp on ebay, and so I looked at simlar ones to see what prices people are getting. One guy actually wrote, "I'm not sure if it works because I haven't plugged it in"
Give me a break. What am I. stupid?
Same with cameras. Ask if they used it WITH FILM, and avoid the "it seems to work" nonsense. There are a lot of good people selling good cameras on ebay, but I still think the best finds are at your local thrift store. |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 266
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 07:20 pm: |
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eBay has just announced the most needed improvement to its business - Sellers will be banned from leaving negative feedback - This will mean that buyers will be able to really give a true report on the seller in question.
This should have been done from the very start of eBay. As a member of eBay you always try and avoid the dreaded 'negative', however many sellers refuse to post feedback until the buyer posts theirs. Some sellers even intimate that any buyer giving negative feedback, will receive the same!
As a seller, the new rules will not bother me one bit. I do not like 'bully boy' tactics, usually used by purveyors of rubbish (worthless crap to use the vernacular).
I must state that I have had very few problems, both as a seller or buyer. On the few occasions that problems arose, the Paypal protections ensured that I was fully compensated. |
Petercat
Tinkerer
Username: Petercat
Post Number: 22
Registered: 01-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 07:44 pm: |
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Glenn-
Where did you see that announcement? I can't find it. |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 271
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 11, 2008 - 01:59 pm: |
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There were details on BBC News 24, just prior to me posting the above. I guess they are working out the details - unless someone has scammed the BBC. However BBC Business News has always been 100% accurate, as far as I have seen previous to this release. I will see what I can find on the BBC site. |
Steve_s
Tinkerer
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 100
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 06:58 am: |
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It certainly doesn't seem to have reached eBay's announcements pages yet, Glenn, but I would have extremely mixed feelings about such a change. I do buy on eBay, and also occasionally sell - seldom photographic kit, but items accumulated over the years for which I have no further use.
I agree that the feedback system is not used in the way intended, largely for fear of "retaliatory negatives", but at least as a buyer you do have some control of who you buy from. You just have to read between the lines a bit when you study the seller's feedback.
It is selling that gives me nightmares! As a seller you have no defence at all against a disreputable buyer, who is most unlikely to give you time to cancel their bid by bidding before the final seconds. The eBay "Buyer requirements" which you can apply are a bad joke - you can block bidders with a feedback score of -1 or less or with 2 Unpaid Item strikes in the last month! This means you are wide open to any but the worst 0.1% of eBay users.
When I sell, I am in the habit of leaving feedback first. I don't altogether like doing it this way round. Ideally, I think both parties should leave feedback when the transaction is complete, with the item sent and received safely. As a seller, leaving feedback first, you often have no information on which to base it other than how quickly the buyer paid, but I do always offer in my listings a full refund if the buyer is not satisfied that the item is as described, and so I consider that not leaving feedback until they have left theirs could be seen as invalidating this.
So far I have been fortunate with my buyers, perhaps because of the type of items I sell, but if in the future I am unfortunate enough to encounter a buyer with terrible feedback, or a serial non-payer, I would definitely want the sanction of being able to delay leaving feedback until after the transaction was completed and they had left theirs. |
Rlc
Tinkerer
Username: Rlc
Post Number: 42
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 09:45 am: |
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Hi Steve, Petercat and all; First let me state that I completely agree with Steve's last paragraph.
I enjoy a 100% positive feedback rating and most all are glowing comments with well over 200 transactions. I have been scammed a few times from unscrupulous bidders (Non Paying) and a couple of times from sellers. Now with the new rules I cannot leave negative comments for buyers. Also there is some talk within eBay which would require seller to have a PayPal account and accept PayPal from all buyers. They already mandate that you must accept Credit card payments from buyers who pay with PayPal. While they tout "Protection for the seller" if you read the fine print you will learn that eBay will intervene on the sellers behalf (In case of credit card charge backs) but in the final analysis they will not guarantee any positive results for the seller. This is why many sellers refuse to accept PayPal payments.
As a seller I withhold my feedback for buyer until I receive notice from buyer that all is well with the transaction. If the buyer is not satisfied I would cheerfully refund to the buyer. (This has never happened). I beleive in full disclosure on all the items I list, clearly stating the good, bad and the ugly. I have shipped all over the world and have made friends with several with whom I still communicate.
Petercat if you click on "My Messages" -on the eBay summary page- it will take you to "Important Seller Pricing Changes, Jan.29"
Ebay makes much ado regarding lower insertion fees and free gallery listings but the dirty little secret will be revealed if you scroll down on that page to "Final Value Fees". There you will learn that eBay (Effective Feb. 20th '08) will increase the sellers final value fees from 5.25% to 8.75%. That, when combined with (eBay owned) PayPal fees is quite a large cost for the seller.
There is now a movement for sellers to boycott eBay for their arbitrary and dictatorial practices which offer little or no protection for sellers and also the ever increasing rise in costs for the sellers.
I support this boycott and have just now cancelled a listing which is current and has received no bids. I intend to withhold all listings until eBay gets the message loud and clear from the sellers or until another Auction Style Format appears on the scene.
I firmly believe that if the majority of sellers would withhold their listings, it would take little time for eBay to get the message loud and clear that we protest the constant changing of the rules, which offer no protection for the sellers, and the increase in fees for sellers.
Richard. |
Steve_s
Tinkerer
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 101
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 01:39 pm: |
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What eBay really needs to make the feedback system work is an appeal procedure, so that someone, buyer or seller, who leaves a proveably justified negative, and receives a retaliatory negative in return, can seek to have it removed from their record. The present option of "mutual withdrawal" simply encourages "retaliatories" and leaves the victim in the same position as the offender.
This, of course, would require human input, and would therefore cost money. I would happily pay eBay's hike of 43% in final value fees if they would use it to finance such a system, but of course they need the money to pay the wages of the army of idiots they employ to think up new ways of making eBay daily more and more irritating to use! |
Steve_s
Tinkerer
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 102
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 02:13 pm: |
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It is all true! When I first read Glenn's posting I had to check the calendar to make sure it wasn't 1st April! I still can't find anything about the "sellers can't leave negatives" issue in the normal announcements, but via the eBay forums I found this link:
http://pages.ebay.com/services/forum/new.html
I haven't studied it in depth, and it all looks very complicated. At first glance, the "protection" for sellers looks VERY limited unless the buyer in question has shown a previous "pattern of abuse". |
Rlc
Tinkerer
Username: Rlc
Post Number: 43
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 04:23 pm: |
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Steve_s; I concur with your statement re: "army of idiots". I once heard how many thousands of of employees are working for eBay but cannot state the exact number. I have often thought that they have to justify their existence by thinking of new ways to further complicate the eBay selling process.
It seems that almost everytime I list with them, something else has changed. My motto has always been "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
If you will click "My messages" on your eBay summary page -as noted before- you will find in paragragh #3 "Buyers will only be able to receive positive feedback" This of course means that seller will not be able to post a negative for the buyer. The buyer may leave negative for the seller for any reason (Real or imagined) but the seller may not defend his position by leaving negative for the buyer. Fair????. I think not.
Hope this clarifies the issue.
Richard. |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 274
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 05:04 pm: |
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Well I can see the rational in eBay's reasoning for the new rules/regulations. They say more satisfied repeat buyers will benefit both seller AND eBay. Obviously eBay are only in this for the profit, any alterations will not be about handing money back to the customers they depend on! Reading the comments on this thread, perhaps eBay have got it wrong this time - but I think you will have trouble building a large revolt against the lack of seller protection, only time will tell.
However, as both seller and buyer, I personally have had no problems with eBay. Sure it costs, but if you use the specialist auction houses, their fees/commissions soon rack up. It is no good selling specialised/rare items through the local weekly auction, you just do not get the right bidders attending. Even the use of internet listings, by some these general auction houses, has not improved the customer base. To be sure of getting a good/fair price, you have to use the more specialised auction houses and hence pay higher fees.
In all honesty I cannot really be bothered to use eBay as a seller. I have a strict daily computer usage limit - nothing to do with costs or equipment limitations - I have better things to do with my time than spend hours infront of a screen. So eBay comes very low on my list of 'things to do on computer today'. |
Fiftyfifty
Tinkerer
Username: Fiftyfifty
Post Number: 26
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 01:14 am: |
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I would think that without E-bay this site would have very little activity.
As a buyer on E-bay I recently bought a "Mint" camera,but when it arrived it was far from Mint and one of the switches had seized,when I contacted the seller, I am told by him that he does not do returns,and that I should sell it on. I know I can claim that I can lodge a claim with E-bay.
I decided to give him a Negative and repair the camera myself. You can guess what happened next, I receive a negative from him. This is what E-bay are trying to prevent. |
Steve_s
Tinkerer
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 103
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 01:54 am: |
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I'm not sure about "trouble building a large revolt", Glenn! See the thread below: -
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=2000505133&tstart=0&mod=12028865 79830
6,600 posts in a fortnight, and counting, suggests the change might not be too popular.
Personally, when I sell on eBay I believe that I describe the item well enough for the buyer to know exactly what they are getting. I have never had a complaint, but if I ever did I would give a full refund including postage, rather than argue the issue. The fear, as Rlc says, is a buyer who might leave a negative for spurious reasons (e.g. postal delays beyond the seller's control) secure in the knowledge that their own feedback is safe. As we all well know, there are some serious nutters out there on eBay, we just have to keep our fingers crossed that we never encounter them! |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 276
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 04:16 pm: |
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Steve,
Interesting situation! I see the revolt is already there - I have never bothered with eBay forums, hence my lack of subject knowledge. In fact the more you think about the feedback system, the more snags you can see.
Whilst eBay seem to be going full out to 'protect' the buyer, at the expense of the seller. It appears to me that they seem to ignore the fact that without goods to sell, eBay would not exist. So perhaps they ought to give the sellers a bit more consideration.
It is a sad fact, there are dishonest sellers and buyers on eBay. Why should eBay not reflect what we meet in other commercial areas? Many of us will know of dodgy shops/dealers, especially in areas of high tourist intake.
In answer to Fiftyfifty's comments. I personally came across this forum, because I was trying to repair equipment that had been in the family for years. I must be lucky, because none of my classic eBay acquisitions have proved faulty. I only purchase faulty equipment from dealers or sellers, after examination. A bargain is only a bargain if I can repair it, and the cosmetic appearance reasonable. Hence my desire to examine before purchase, no matter how cheap. |
Rlc
Tinkerer
Username: Rlc
Post Number: 45
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 09:28 pm: |
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Steve; Re; your last post, "6,600 posts in a fortnight, and counting, suggests the change might not be too popular."
I believe that if it were ten times that amount,(66,000 negative posts) they would continue on this course as it hasn't cost them anything.
Considering that eBay's brand new CEO has chosen these changes to boost their profits, I see three options to remedy the current unfair practices and much higher costs for sellers.
#1. Sellers boycott.
#2. Some competition from a multimillion dollar enterprize, such as Yahoo or other.
#3. Reduction of some of their tens of thousand employees who have nothing better to do than dream of new ways to complicate a once simple and pleasureable system.
Having no control over options #2 or #3, I have chosen option #1.
I truly believe, that if a significant number of sellers would choose this option, it would take very little time to get the message across.
Richard. |
Steve_s
Tinkerer
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 104
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 04:13 am: |
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The change would be more acceptable if eBay would revise their ludicrous "Buyer requirements" at the same time. I see that the ability to block bidders with a NEGATIVE feedback score remains, even though it will be impossible for a user who only buys to receive a negative. Even under present rules a bidder with, for example, 10 positives and 10 negatives, who would have a score of zero, could not be blocked. Would you want to do business with someone that trustworthy?
If you read through the new rules, in spite of eBay's assurances, there are really no safeguards at all for sellers. If a seller reports a buyer to eBay for any contravention of the rules, and the buyer leaves a negative feedback in retaliation, it will remain on the seller's record unless eBay suspends that buyer, which they are very unlikely to do except in the most extreme cases. What is happening is that a flawed system where a buyer is afraid to leave negative feedback for a dishonest seller, is being replaced by another flawed system where an honest seller will be afraid to report a dishonest buyer.
If anyone organises a sellers' boycott against the fee increases and feedback changes I would certainly go along with it, though, frankly, I cannot see how it could be organised.
My own selling is partly to finance my photographic purchases, but mainly because I need the space. There is no outlet where I could sell most of these items other than eBay. Richard is undoubtedly correct that eBay would not take any notice of anything that did not hit them in the pocket, but I'm afraid eBay is now so big it has a total monopoly of the market, and those that depend on it for their livelihood are unlikely to stay away for long. The same goes for PayPal, who also have an almost total monopoly of their particular niche of the market, particularly the eBay niche. If a high-street bank operated with the standards of customer service delivered by PayPal they would not last for 5 minutes, because everyone would take their business elsewhere, but PayPal effectively has no competition.
I have bought quite a bit of photographic equipment on eBay over the last 3 years, or so, and generally I have been well pleased, though certainly not 100% like you, Glenn. Quite early on I was suckered by one of the "unfair negative feedback will be returned in kind" merchants (his definition of "unfair", obviously!). The sum involved was small, so I had no option but to chicken out on that one. I actually enjoy fixing things in general, and cameras in particular, much more than I enjoy photography itself, so I'm not too bothered if something turns out to need a bit more work than expected, as long as I didn't pay too much for it. I reckon I have enough "projects" in hand now to last me the next 5 years, at least, so apart from things I actually do need, I try only to buy when the price is such that I cannot afford not to buy! There are some bargains out there on eBay if you can manage to be in the right place at the right time. Actually, some of my best buys (and a few of my worst) have been from the "I know nothing" sellers. Some people actually do know nothing about cameras. Some others think they do, but wouldn't recognise fungus if it crawled out of the lens and said "hello"! |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 279
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 10:38 am: |
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Steve,
I fully agree with your 'best bargains from the "I know nothing" brigade. About 2 years ago I got a boxed nFD 100mm macro lens and fully boxed Auto Bellows plus ALL accessories. All were mint and I paid less than £80 for the lot! The seller genuinely knew nothing about photographic equipment, but was also unfamiliar with the eBay photographic section - listed them in completely the wrong place, hence my bargain due to lack of bidders. I only found them by chance when I was searching for something else. |
Mndean
Tinkerer
Username: Mndean
Post Number: 40
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 02:40 pm: |
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One thing I know is that sellers would have never been put in this position if it weren't for retaliatory feedback. It certainly is not rare to be threatened by sellers and have them put onerous conditions on sales. If ebay wished to clean things up they could have started by going after those sellers first, and instead of denying sellers the opportunity of feedback, using a blind feedback system where an account cannot see his own feedback (yes, I know it'd be bypassed, but if a seller or buyer does that, THEN they can get kicked off ebay). Sellers have only one issue to give feedback on - timely payment. Buyers have two - timely delivery of product, and whether the item was as described (including any correspondence between seller and buyer - I've had a seller mislead me about an item in response to a question). As long as sellers misrepresent products (and try to get out of it by a "no returns" policy), there will be problems, and these problems must be large enough for ebay to try to address them. Ebay's hamfisted approach doesn't solve anything though. I'm amused by the anger of the sellers, some of whom have been abusing buyers for years without penalty. They should've policed their own better. Most sellers (99.9%) aren't crooks, but many will do anything to keep a buyer's money, including using retaliatory feedback. Sellers have a great advantage with retaliatory feedback as well, since most sellers sell far more than any one person buys, making their negative hurt far more than a buyer's negative to them. |
Steve_s
Tinkerer
Username: Steve_s
Post Number: 105
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 04:17 am: |
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Mndean is certainly correct in saying that there has always been much more scope for abuse of the feedback system by sellers than by buyers. eBay is right to think of making changes, but whether tipping the playing field so far in the opposite direction is the right way to go is another matter. Possibly a far better solution would have been to abandon entirely the present positive/negative and percentage feedback scoring, where 100% feedback has such importance, and go for an extension of the "Detailed seller feedback" rating introduced a year ago so, that it could apply to buyers as well. This would be far more flexible, and the rating you leave is effectively anonymous, so "retaliatory feedback" is impossible.
Hopefully, honest sellers do not have too much to fear from the new system - provided that all their buyers are rational beings who actually want the item they have bid on! The problem, as I've suggested before, is that not all eBay users are rational beings. |
Rlc
Tinkerer
Username: Rlc
Post Number: 46
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 05:09 pm: |
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Ongoing saga of ebay's changes.
Interesting site. Interview with Fox News regarding eBay's new policy. (Wait for the commercial message for "Blckberry" finishes).
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/ver/251.7/popup/index.php?cl=6508571
Richard. |
Thuggins
Tinkerer
Username: Thuggins
Post Number: 18
Registered: 12-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 10:46 pm: |
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All the Ebay sellers are howling about how victimized they are! If you actually read the new policy you'll see that it makes it much harder for buyers to leave negative feedback. If a buyer does manage to jump thru all the hoops to warn other buyers about a crook, Ebay can now just delete it. Some protection!
A seller has nothing to loose on Ebay. If someone doesn't pay, they just relist the item. Ebay doesn't even charge for relisting. It is the buyer that's out real money. Anybody that would object to any policy that protects buyers is proving they can't be trusted. |
Kirby0107
Tinkerer
Username: Kirby0107
Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 01:30 pm: |
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I recently purchased a Voigtlander Vitessa T at an estate sale. The shutter does not work, the light meter also does not appear to be working. Is this camera worth repairing? I would not even think of doing it myself, and have looked for camera repair on google and this forum came up.
Thanks,
Rick |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 585
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 06:46 pm: |
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Rick,
Welcome to the forum. Your question would have been better posted on a new thread - it will tend to get lost in this eBay saga.
I will try and give you a pointer. A specialised European dealer asks €200/€250 for mint examples of this model fitted with the 2.8/50mm Color Skopar and complete with case, box and all manuals etc.
The selenium cell in the meter is most likely shot and will need replacing. Any competent repairman will be able to CLA the shutter. I do not know the likely repair costs, and the worth of the repair really depends on the cosmetic state of your example. The cameras are very well engineered and do have a following.
This forum is a source of advice for the DIY tinkerer: however, as you are US based, I suggest you contact a fellow forum member called Bossman. He runs or ran a repair buisness, and has offered quite a bit of help to forum members. His website is -
www.flcamerarepair.com
I am sure he will be able to give you an estimate of likely repair costs, this will enable you to decide on whether to go ahead or not. The duff meter is something that could be left as is - a small pocket meter would perhaps be the cheaper option to a full meter repair.
Best of luck. |
Kirby0107
Tinkerer
Username: Kirby0107
Post Number: 2
Registered: 05-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 09:21 am: |
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Thank you for the answers to my question, I did not realize I added this without starting a new thread. Rookie mistake on my part.
Thanks again,
Rick |
Likaleica1
Tinkerer
Username: Likaleica1
Post Number: 8
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2011 - 04:36 am: |
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More on the Contax II I bought on eBay a while ago......with broken self timer and a shutter that jammed within days of purchase....the camera turned out to be a FAKE ! When sent to a Contax repairer, he found it was in fact an early Kiev with the name plate engraving rolled out to be replaced with "Contax." It had a fake Zeiss Ikon embossing on the leather back and a false 1937 Contax serial number inside the film back. When I sent all the photos and the e mail from the repairer to the seller, he refused to accept it was not a Contax ! So I was stuck with a fairly worthless camera needing major repair for a large anmount of money. The irony is that an undoctored early model KNEB Kiev might be worth more than a Contax II, so the faker was probably wasting his time. I did have the camera repaired in the former Soviet Union for a very good price and must say it has the smoothest, quietest shutter of any Contax or Kiev I have experienced and produces excellent photographs. Unfortunately to return the camera to KNEB status I would have to find the correct front plate with early engraving, remove the ZI serial number, fit new leather to the back etc - a big task! |
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