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Adrian
Tinkerer
Username: Adrian
Post Number: 116
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 03:53 am: | 
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I can't be 100% that this has happened until I get the film developed. However, I just took my newly rebuilt Werra 1 to Germany for the New Year, and took some pics on a mountain top at around -6 Celsius.
After an hour or so outside my coat I noticed that the shutter sounded as though it was running much slower than it had been when I started. There was a distinct double click, suggesting it was down closer to 1/15th than 1/125th where it was set. An hour or so inside my coat, and it sounded fine again.
Given that it's an East German camera, I'd have thought it would have been designed to cope with German weather. It should also be free from grease in the shutter, as I thoroughly flushed all the escapements. So I'm at a loss.
Any bright ideas, anyone?
Adrian |
Rick_oleson
Tinkerer
Username: Rick_oleson
Post Number: 477
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 04:33 am: |
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The only thing in the shutter that significantly changes with a change in temperature is any trace of oil or grease in it. If the shutter slows down in the cold, it's a very good indication that it is not 100% oil-free inside. It often happens that a shutter still has some oil in it even after cleaning, either trace residues that didn't get flushed away or else oil in some area that you did not clean. If the escapement itself is in fact perfectly oil-free, there might still be some trace of oil betwen the shutter chassis and the blade actuating ring, or on the blades themselves, that would slow the shutter down in the cold. |
Adrian
Tinkerer
Username: Adrian
Post Number: 117
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 06:10 am: |
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Thanks, Rick - obviously more naptha needed! It'll have to come apart if I ever get round to fixing the grips on the shutter speed ring, so I'll put that on the "to fix" list *unrolls sheet of paper down the stairs until he finds bottom*
Adrian |
Rick_oleson
Tinkerer
Username: Rick_oleson
Post Number: 478
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 06:33 pm: |
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don't feel like you're the only one this happens to....
: ) = |
Adrian
Tinkerer
Username: Adrian
Post Number: 124
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 09:46 am: |
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Rick,
Just got the film finished and developed, and they are fine. Perhaps a little over-exposure on one or two, but more of the "forgot two cameras had different speed films in" sort than of the "sticky shutter" sort (it would show - I was looking at snow!). So either the capping shutter is dragging slightly, or I'm paranoid...
Adrian |
Tower7861
Tinkerer
Username: Tower7861
Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 11:11 am: |
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I red that some times,to lubricate a leaf shutter,one could use grafite powder,just tip a brush in the grafite and with the lightess touch,drag the brush on the leaf shutter, |
Ethostech
Tinkerer
Username: Ethostech
Post Number: 84
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 07:29 am: |
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Adrian .. You indicate that you have flush-cleaned the shutter.
But your Werra 1 is over 40 years old. Flush cleaning will seldom remove all congealed grease from the activator ring.
The early Werra 1 models used a Synchro-Compur shutter before delevopment of the Prestor RVS which has a rotary shutter and a capping shutter. Removing the complete lens/shutter module from the latter to manually clean up the activator ring can be sometimes problematic - or even impossible.
The slotted ring retainer as outside and concentric with the lens rear element is brass - whilst the camera chasis female is of aluminium. I have experienced galvanic and electolytic corrosion whereby the two become effectively welded together and unshiftable - even using an especially-made tubular key.
IF you can release the brass retainer without it collapsing, then cleaning the activator ring is a fairly easy task. If however that ring does not reasonably yield - you would be well advised to let things be.
Graphite powder as kindly advocated by Tower7861 will not free up a greased activator-ring. But graphite powder is not a good idea for any shutter cleaning unless as a polish for blades fully extracted from the shutter. If assembled blades are given the graphite treatment you will thereafter inevitably be plagued by little "sparklers" which find there way on the the surface of the optics.
Hope this helps. |
Adrian
Tinkerer
Username: Adrian
Post Number: 125
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 08:44 am: |
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Thanks Stuart, I'll bear that in mind. Given that the photos are OK and the negs are a good, even density compared with ones I took in the warm, I think I must have imagined this problem - or they would have been massively overexposed. Note that that's OK by my standards, not necessarily a pro! There's a couple on flickr under gray1720 - plus a (very poor!) photo of the beast itself, next to a nice green Werra 1.
I confess - I'd carefully dismantled the shutter and cleaned each escapement individually then reassembled the thing with the spring that fits around the shutter release pivot round somewhere else entirely... and wondered why it didn't go! However, I didn't think to clean the activating ring, or the groove it sits in on the inside of the body. If I ever find a shutter speed ring with intact grips on it, I'll need to take it apart to fit that so I'll do it then... One more thing to remember when doing these jobs.
I'll save the graphite for disc shutters in box cameras I think - as used by the pros back when people still serviced Box Brownies, or so the box camera service manual someone linked to here said...
My springs have finally all arrived from the US, so in the next few months I'll see if I can resurrect one from the junk box... wish me luck!
Adrian |
Arnoldharris
Tinkerer
Username: Arnoldharris
Post Number: 19
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 02:26 pm: |
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Among my 35mm cameras are now some 73 Voigtlander Vitessa-Ts, 9 Agfa Ambi-Silettes, one older Agfa with fixed lens, 2 Voigtlander Bessamatics and a Pentax K1000. The latter three are clank-and-bang SLRs which I regard with distaste. All the others are rangefinders over which I manifest great fondness.
Repair problem. The Agfas all have steel windup type springs mounted on a small drum as part of the shutter cocking and film advance mechanism. The springs are about 4.5" long, with one end bent around to lock it onto a fixed shaft. The other end is locked onto the windup mounting drum. The spring returns the cocking handle to home position.
Springs on two of these cameras are broken. Where can I obtain replacements? And if necessary, what sort of tool is needed to punch a hole through that spring steel material to take the set-screw used to mount one end onto the windup drum?
Whether or not I use genuine Agfa parts, which may not even exist anymore, is less important than that they perform their mechanical function.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 257
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 06:00 pm: |
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For springs of this type I use pieces of watch/clock spring. I either use scrap springs, or new items purchased from a local horological suppliers.
The width of a stock spring can easily be reduced on a surface grinder, with a magnetic bed. The spring is fully wound, and pushed into a suitable diameter hole drill in a piece of steel plate. Using plenty of coolant and light 'cuts' soon produces a spring of the correct width.
Punching the retaining hole is equally simple. The spring is clamped between two pieces of steel plate into which a hole of the correct diameter has been drilled through both. A hardened steel puch is then driven through the aforesaid hole. For this to work properly - the punch must be a closed sliding fit in the hole in the clamping pieces, the thickness of the top clamp must be such that it locates the punch at 90 degs to the spring stock, the two halves of the clamp should be located by two steel pins as well as the two bolts used to apply the clamping force, this is to ensure that the punch can pass cleanly through the lower clamping piece. The holes for the punch and the location pins are produced using suitably sized reamers
I make the actual punch pins from fully hardened silver steel, these are held in a 3/8" diameter handle which is given a sharp tap with a hammer. For small holes in thin spring stock, I just grind the end of the punch flat. For larger holes in thicker stock, I grind the end of the punches off at a slight angle. This gives a small "lead' which makes penetration much easier. |
Arnoldharris
Tinkerer
Username: Arnoldharris
Post Number: 20
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 10:37 am: |
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Thanks, Glenn. Now the trick is to find one or more horological suppliers around southeastern Wiscons. But if there is a demand for any item, there is likely to be a supplier.
I apologize for posting my question about Agfa springs in a thread entitled "Why would a leaf shutter slow in the cold?", but I couldn't find a way on this forum to start a new thread of my own.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI |
Markus
Tinkerer
Username: Markus
Post Number: 26
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 11:32 am: |
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Arnold, to start a new thread just scroll all the way down to the bottom of one of the forum pages and click on the "Start new thread" link. It took me a while to find that one, too.
- Markus |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 258
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 05:07 pm: |
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Arnold/Markus,
You can also find the 'new thread' link at the top of each topic index page - line above 'Thread' on second column. Saves time, scrolling down what can be a long list! |
Onehalfplus10
Tinkerer
Username: Onehalfplus10
Post Number: 4
Registered: 03-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 14, 2009 - 05:01 pm: |
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For those of you who will spend a lot of time in the COLD with your camera, first take it to a specialist repair shop and have the WHOLE camera be made COMPLETELY OIL FREE. And I mean COMPLETELY. Very little Talcum powder and/or very little graphite powder is substituted for the oil. But, basicly, the camera is NO LONGER lubricated.
Works perfectly - as long as you are in the COLD (like -30 or so).
Just don't let it get damp. When you stop shooting in the cold, bring it back to the same shop and they will lubricate it again.
People who do this usually have Nikons, Bolex, Russian K-3, Leicas, Russian FED-2, Contax G1/G2, etc. Professional stuff.
That's why EXPENSIVE watches run in the cold as well as the hot. NO oil. Bearings are made with Ruby stone. Soft, self lubricated precious ($$$) stone. They use other precious stones in there as well. As well as diamonds. Which is why a normal Rolex is $15,000+. The Philip Patex start at $21,000. OK? |
Mndean
Tinkerer
Username: Mndean
Post Number: 131
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 14, 2009 - 08:10 pm: |
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American watches used to have ruby, sapphire, and diamond bearings, depending on the maker and the quality of the movement. Number of jewels is not necessarily a mark of quality nowadays. My $60 Seiko has 21 jewels and is reasonably accurate. Now that it's 5 years old, it could use a small adjustment.
I doubt that camera escapements would have much profited from jeweled movements since they're not constantly moving. The prep for cine cameras was to remove the heavy lube, but still have a film of kerosene for arctic conditions. More difficult was handling the film in the dryness of the arctic climate. |
