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Rj_
Tinkerer
Username: Rj_
Post Number: 73
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 24, 2008 - 04:09 pm: | 
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I guess this question is a long shot.
Sometime ago I posted on the issue of a screw plate bushes for creating a 1/4" mount onto different cameras, such that a standard tripod screw could be of use.
I'm finding that the 1/4" screws tend to warp when turned into either mahoganite or wood, and come to rest at an angle, causing the camera to sit non-plane with the horizon.
The weight of the camera is also an issue for the 1/4" screw.
I wonder if anyone has built a 3/8" tripod plate/bush into a wooden camera before and if any fixture could be recommended. |
Rick_oleson
Tinkerer
Username: Rick_oleson
Post Number: 518
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 24, 2008 - 05:57 pm: |
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I believe that in the earlier discussion, one of the more attractive pieces of hardware for the purpose was a 1/4-20 Weld Nut, which can be bought from www.mcmaster.com and inserted from above into a clearance hole drilled through the wood, and secured against rotation by a small wood screw in each of the 3 holes that are provided in one style of the weld nut.
This same part is also available in the 3/8-16 thread that is the standard large tripod screw. These parts are plain steel, but you can get them in stainless as well if you can drill your own holes for the wood screws.
go to www.mcmaster.com and type "weld nut" into the search box. |
Rj_
Tinkerer
Username: Rj_
Post Number: 75
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 02:03 pm: |
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Alas Rick,
all those 100's of 1/4-20 Weld Nuts you sent me were rendered useless after I drilled holes, too large for the wood screws. Consequently I decided I might have to go a step bigger to resolve the problem.
It's impossible to tap hammer in woodscrews into mahogany without splintering. Perhaps my technique is poor.
I may try and source a different part if I can't come up with an alternative; it seems too precarious to have a large camera supported on such a tiny portion of metal, held in by 3 wood screws.
Thanks for the help.
RJ |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 292
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 06:03 pm: |
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Christ, never let a hammer near a woodscrew, even when using soft woods! In hardwoods especially, you must drill a pilot hole first. The diameter of the pilot hole is the core diameter of the screw you are inserting. Rub the screwthreads on a wax candle before inserting.
Personally I attack this problem from another direction. In the model aircraft world you can get some very neat captive nuts - these push in from the rear of the wooden bulkhead and are retain buy sharp projections. This a superior, smaller scale version of the hammer nut used in general woodworking.
I mount the modified weld nut on a piece of 3/8" ply,using the captive nuts and countersunk headed machine screws. You can use a thin spacer sheet or let the nuts into the face of the plywood. The plywood piece is cut to fit over a large area of camera base, and can be rectangular or circular. Four holes are then drilled in this piece of ply and matching holes in the base of camera. I then insert another set of captive nuts from inside camera or reverse of base board and then use pan headed machine screws to attach the wooden 'plate' to the camera. The wooden plate can be painted or covered in leather etc.
This modification means that the plate is easily removed, with only four small holes being the noticeable alteration to the original camera. |
Rick_oleson
Tinkerer
Username: Rick_oleson
Post Number: 522
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 07:27 pm: |
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Can't address the splintering problem, but the wood screws don't carry any load, regardless of the size of the camera: you put the flanged nuts in from the top so that the broad steel flange on top of the wood carries the load; all the screws do is keep it from spinning while you screw in the tripod screw. If you don't mind the permanence of it (it can't be much more permanent than splinters) you could epoxy it into place. Like the screws, the epoxy doesn't carry any of the load of the camera's weight, it's only there to stick the nut into the hole and keep it from spinning. It seems the size of the flange on top of the wooden camera base should be plenty to hold the loads involved, unless I'm seriously misunderstanding something. |
Rj_
Tinkerer
Username: Rj_
Post Number: 76
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 03, 2008 - 03:19 pm: |
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Glenn - thanks for the advice and useful hints - I'll modify my technique with your suggestions. Anything has to be better than finding myself starting over again yet again.
I like the exposed look of the finished mahogany veneer which seems to keep with the camera's aesthetic era.
Thank you again Rick. You're right - the wood screws don't take the weight. I'm using Manfrotto/Bogen hexagon plates which tend to warp everything side ways. I know these aren't the best design since every camera I use with these tends to warp side-ways. It was a poor choice for the mahogany wood screws, generating centrifugal force to rip the woodscrews out of the wood.
Kind regards,
RJ |
M_currie
Tinkerer
Username: M_currie
Post Number: 113
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 08:34 am: |
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With regard to the Manfrotto plates: I think those plates have too soft or deep a padding on them. It tends to squish down unevenly under load. You might consider peeling that off and putting something thinner on, like thin leather, or even leaving them naked if you don't mind marring the wood. There also are, or have been at some time, alternative plates with different surfaces and screw designs, including even extra threaded holes, setscrews, etc. for special applications. |
Rj_
Tinkerer
Username: Rj_
Post Number: 77
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 01:47 pm: |
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Thank you Matthew -
I've put up with the Manfrotto plates for 8 years although I've never been satisfied with them, thinking that it is fundamentally of a poor design. The padding has already been stripped off two of the hexagonal plates I have.
It relies on the integrity of the mahogany tripod base, which at the moment, relies on the integrity of the tripod base support.
I just realised that a rubber washer, sandwiched between the tripod screw and the camera base plate, might actually stop the problem.. |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 295
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 03:33 pm: |
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Sorry Rj, I must be going through a brain dead period at the moment. I cannot picture what you are doing with the Manfrotto plates. I have used many different types of these quick release plates and associated bases. I have mounted the plates via the the tripod bush and also screwed/bolted directly on the camera base. I certainly tend to replace all the soft 'rubber' padding, on both the plates and tripod heads, with nylon inserts. However I have never had problems with 'sideways warping'.
Personally I like the Manfrotto quick release systems and find them just as good as some of the more (very) expensive alternatives. |
Rj_
Tinkerer
Username: Rj_
Post Number: 78
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2008 - 04:54 am: |
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Hi Glenn,
It's not you - I'm probably just not describing what I am doing (which is not very well) with any more clarity.
Can't find my mobile phone->computer connector, otherwise I'd upload a few images to illustrate.
The Manfrotto plates have always rotated slightly loose in use (with whichever camera I try). The side-ways warping describes the tripod base connector which I've tried to build with several different 1/4 inch screw units - the first, with three spike like locks, and the second, with three wood-screw holes.
I also use the Manfrotto PL200 and the Gitzo 1276 quick release head. The Gitzo is better than the PL200, but won't take the weight of anything substantial.
Kind regards,
RJ |
M_currie
Tinkerer
Username: M_currie
Post Number: 115
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2008 - 08:46 am: |
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I think much of that problem will be solved if you are able to insert the tee-nut (or whatever you call that thing locally) from inside the camera, so that the screw pulls the flange tighter into the wood. If it's cleanly done from the start, with the sort that has little claws, it should prevent the tee nut from rotating as well.
For rotation, there are a couple of possibilities, depending on how important it is to preserve finish, and how permanently the plate is mounted. Most Manfrotto hex plates have at least one extra hole off center, sometimes threaded, sometimes not, and one possibility would be either to add a screw through a second hole, to prevent rotation (it need not set strong threads in the wood to do that), or to insert a setscrew that would dig in a little. There are also plates made with a little L-bracket, though they won't work if the camera base is very large.
If your plates have no extra holes, it's quite easy to drill one wherever you need it. Most of the heads I've seen that use those plates have a good bit of open space below the plate, allowing plenty of space for projections, screw heads, etc. |
Rj_
Tinkerer
Username: Rj_
Post Number: 79
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 09:12 am: |
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Many thanks.
I thought about your suggestion and realised that I could achieve this using the following:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22375742@N08/2314887578/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22375742@N08/2314887582/
From top to bottom runs the Manfrotto hex plate, then a 1/4 inch rubber spacer, then the 1/4 inch tripod screw plate (with claws), and the three pronged tripod support plate. Lastly, on the base side is a 1/4 inch Whitworth threaded nut which countersinks into the 1/4 inch tripod screw plate and meets the Manfrotto Hex Plate screw precisely.
It's rock solid, however I think I'll leave the plate embedded in this assembly in case I disturb it.
Perhaps not as elegant as the one I did earlier:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22375742@N08/2314887584/in/photostream/
Although this one was finished after I realised all the technical problems I had with the design of the first one.
Many thanks for all the help in brainstorming - it's really useful having others' thoughts to reflect on before coming up with a solution.
Kind regards,
RJ |
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