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Nickm758
Tinkerer
Username: Nickm758
Post Number: 15
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 07:37 am: | 
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I have a Zeiss Ikon Nettar 515 (6x4.5 model) on which the shutter speeds are off. Specifially: 1/175, 1/100, 1/50, 1/10, 1/5 all sound and look about the same speed. I'm hoping to avoid paying $150 ~ $200 to have it fixed so I'm wondering if there's a way to fix the shutter myself?
Also the lens appears to be hazy, how do I go about cleaning that?
Thanks for any help  |
August
Tinkerer
Username: August
Post Number: 4
Registered: 06-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 03:12 pm: |
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Nick, likely the shutter just needs a cleaning, this is a fairly easy DIY. You didn't say what shutter you have, must be better than the Telma on my 515 because I don't have the 1/10 and 1/5. But they are all simplified Prontors and this site gives good directions how to take it apart sufficiently for cleaning:
http://www.rolandandcaroline.co.uk/repair/prontors1.html
You'll find your shutter looks simpler than the one pictured but you'll recognize most of the bits. I generally clean by lightly brushing any moving part with naptha (a.k.a. rosonol, lighter fluid) then placing tiny amounts of musical instrument valve oil on the axle of each gear.
The initial steps of a 515 disassembly are a little different from what it says on that web page. Begin the disassembly by removing the screw-in stop that stops the focus element rotating beyond infinity. Then screw it out. Note what orientation it is in at the moment that it disengages from the threads because that's where you'll want to start it when you screw it in again later. Now you can clean the back of the front element and the front of the middle element. Next remove the 3 screws at the 2 o'clock, six o'clock and 10 o'clock positions on the shutter face plate. The face plate will come right off, and probably so will the speed cam. Then just clean as directed by the site above.
Obviously you can also clean the rear of the rear element from the back. If the haze you need to clean is on the rear of the middle element or the front of the rear element, you've got trouble. these come out only by removing some very nasty snap rings (stiff pieces of wire embedded in the threads that go around five-sixths of the way around the circle and are snuggled right next to the lens where removing them is almost certain to scrape the glass). These have stumped me and I have a new query on here for tips on getting these off for access to the inner element faces.
Good luck, these shutters are fun and not hard to fix.
August |
Nickm758
Tinkerer
Username: Nickm758
Post Number: 16
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 05:27 pm: |
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Thanks for answering.
The shutter is a KLIO. It looks very much like this: http://www.daniel.mitchell.name/cameras/index.php?page=klio&WEBMGR=f7a87da23f1a9 57201aa023797a63acf
I have a feeling I might have screwed-up the infinity focus already :^P Is it easy to fix again?
I only went as far as taking the speed selector cam off. I suppose I'll have to bite the bullet and take the whole thing apart :^( I'm afraid I won't be able to get it back together again if I do. |
August
Tinkerer
Username: August
Post Number: 5
Registered: 06-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 06:09 pm: |
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Yes, the infinity focus is easy to fix.
I don't think you'll have to take anything else apart. I've never had to. Operate the shutter a few times with the speed selector cam off and see if anything looks like it isn't doing what it should. Clean and lube everything without further disassembly, put it back together and test again.
August |
Nickm758
Tinkerer
Username: Nickm758
Post Number: 17
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 10:35 pm: |
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If you have confidence in me then I'll try it ;^)
I can get close to 1/50 by moving the speed selector slightly between 1/25 and 1/50. With the speed cam completely off, the shutter will trip half-way. After pushing the shutter button again it will trip completely. That's not normal behavior, is it? Something gummed up, maybe?
How do I fix the focus? |
August
Tinkerer
Username: August
Post Number: 8
Registered: 06-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 08:22 am: |
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It could be that with the speed cam off, the shutter is going into T mode. That seems consistent with what you are seeing, and might be perfectly normal for this shutter.
Here is how to fix the focus. Do this when the camera is back together except for the front element. In daylight, set the camera on a tripod pointed at something practically infinity (like a few hundred metres) away. Lock the shutter open with the T setting, open the back, and stick a piece of magic transparent tape across the film guide rails so it's taut and at the film plane. That will be your groundglass for focus testing. Now to screw on your front element. I will assume that you have not removed the housing with the focus scale from the element and that your camera was properly calibrated to begin with. Screw the front element on, making note of how it is orientated when it first engages with the threads (i.e. cannot be pulled straight off). There might be only one point at which this can occur, or there might be 2 or 3 separate screw tracks. Screw it in, watching the image projected on the clear tape (it helps to use a magnifier) until faraway objects appear in focus. Now look at the lens -- is the scale at or near the infinity position? If so, you've successfully screwed it in the way it was before, just screw the stop post back in and have a beer. If not, note how the focus scale is oriented. If for example it is about 180 degrees from the infinity focus, then you know you have to unscrew and try again starting about 180 from where you did this time. Repeat as necessary. Remove tape, have beer.
August |
August
Tinkerer
Username: August
Post Number: 9
Registered: 06-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 08:23 am: |
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P.S., I forgot to mention, open up the aperture all the way when doing the above.
August |
Nickm758
Tinkerer
Username: Nickm758
Post Number: 18
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 05:40 pm: |
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Cool, thanks. The beer part sounds the easiest.
I remember going to a local camera shop and the gentleman there used a piece of glass (on a Rollei 35 and a Minolta Semi-P.) Is that some special glass or will any piece do? |
Adrian
Tinkerer
Username: Adrian
Post Number: 173
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 02:41 am: |
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He will have used a piece of glass ground to translucence on one side (hence the usual term for them which is... a ground glass). That is transparent enough to act as a window, but opaque enough to project an image onto. I know that sounds vague, but once you get one set up you'll see what I mean.
Magic tape has similar properties, and is easier to find. It's one drawback for this job is that it is flexible, so I use a piece of ordinary glass with a strip of magic tape stuck to it.
August must have great eyes if he says it "helps" to use a magnifier - lucky chap! I use an 8x hand lens, and it still sometimes takes me one or two tries until I'm sure I've found infinity. However it's a nice combination of easy enough to do, but very satisfying once you get it right.
Adrian |
August
Tinkerer
Username: August
Post Number: 13
Registered: 06-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 07:12 am: |
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I have done it naked-eye, but only with medium format and only when I'm just checking the factory setting instead of doing it from scratch. I agree you would need a loupe or similar to get it exactly right. |
