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Kkl122002
Tinkerer
Username: Kkl122002
Post Number: 60
Registered: 05-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 08:17 pm: | 
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I found that both of them are used for lubrication in camera. Which lunbricant is better?
Thanks. |
Mikel
Tinkerer
Username: Mikel
Post Number: 145
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 08:45 pm: |
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Nyoil is all that you will need, and easier to find.
Of course you will get other opinions, but that is what has worked for me over time. |
Kkl122002
Tinkerer
Username: Kkl122002
Post Number: 61
Registered: 05-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 01:36 am: |
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I don't have NYoil in my living area, and seems it is not possible to import.
Many alternative methods has been written in lubricantion. A japanese book of repairing nikon F camera sugges to use diluted spindle oil (5%) for lubricantion.
I hope to know the differences of these lubriants. And to get one that is more suitable. |
Nickon51
Tinkerer
Username: Nickon51
Post Number: 70
Registered: 05-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 02:07 am: |
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You will get many different responses to the oil question, ranging from none at all through to fine watch oil.
Spindle oil should be fine enough as long as it doesn't spread. Personally I use clock oil on pivots and food grade grease on sliding parts. Use as little as possible is the key.
I don't know what you mean by valve oil. Also what is the spindle oil diluted with? What is the other 95% composed of.
Cheers
Greg |
Adrian
Tinkerer
Username: Adrian
Post Number: 246
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 05:56 am: |
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I would assume that valve oil is what brass players use for the valves on their trumpets etc - certainly NYoil, IIRC, is made for musical instruments.
I, too, am intrigued by the diluted oil! Something thinner and non-volatile, presumably. |
Charlie
Tinkerer
Username: Charlie
Post Number: 207
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 06:34 am: |
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Sewing machine oil. |
Paul_ron
Tinkerer
Username: Paul_ron
Post Number: 156
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 03:36 pm: |
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Go to a local music store and get the oil used on trumpet valves or trumbone slides. It's the same as NyOil. |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 592
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 06:17 pm: |
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If one does a little research into the history of lubrication, it will be seen that 'diluted' always referred to cutting down an oil that was too viscous with an inert solvent. This was done so that the resulting solution carried a minute volume of the original oil, deep into the mechanism to be lubricated - the original oil being far too viscous to penetrate the assembly properly. The solvent will evapourate leaving a very thin film of lubricant over the rubbing surfaces, this is why the % of original lubricant is always quoted in the method/instructions - ensuring that the correct amount of lubricant is deposited. |
Paul_ron
Tinkerer
Username: Paul_ron
Post Number: 157
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 06:43 pm: |
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The problem with diluted oil is that once the carrier evaporates it is still teh same viscosity oil you started with, which was too heavy to begin wit
Most shutters run dry and only need a dab of lubricant just to get it started. Brass is self lubricating as long as it's not oxidized, which is what happens when it's not used for extended periods.
The watch oil, NyOil, trumpet oil doesn't leave a film behind as it will soon evaporate, it's so light, it borders into the class of being a thinner. |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 593
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 06:11 pm: |
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Paul,
What you state in your first paragraph is obviously correct; however there are a number of manufacturer's service instructions that state a certain oil should be diluted by a specific ratio. In these cases the original viscosity is obviously an important factor.
Brass on brass rotational contact has a very low wear factor, hence it being looked upon as 'self lubricating. Steel pivots on a brass bearing surface do not really act in the same way, and long term a very small amount of suitable oil on the pivots will be beneficial. The only 'yellow metal' that can be classed as self lubricating under very light load conditions would be a leaded bronze - hence its use in bearing bushes.
Are there different grades of Nyoil? The bottle I have, whilst being of low viscosity, does not 'dry out' that quickly. I use it to lubricate the propellor gearboxes on battery powered scale RC aircraft - seems to last very well between service periods and gives a very free running assembly and long battery life, something that the manufacturers lubricant did not do! |
Mikel
Tinkerer
Username: Mikel
Post Number: 147
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 08:06 pm: |
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Glenn-
We seem to be in violent agreement once again.
My current small bottle of Nyoil is at least eight years old and it doesn't seem to degrade very rapidly.
I think that I have lubricated at least several hundred cameras with it and a few watches too, and it looks that I have used about two ounces of it.
In my experience it is of low volatility and does not readily evaporate.
For me, it has stood the test of time.
And since it's available for sale over the internet, it is available to anyone who is willing to place an order and wait a week or two. |
Brianshaw
Tinkerer
Username: Brianshaw
Post Number: 55
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 12:16 pm: |
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"My current small bottle of Nyoil is at least eight years old and it doesn't seem to degrade very rapidly. ... In my experience it is of low volatility and does not readily evaporate. "
That is one of the essential characteristics of a good watch or clock oil! Good watch/clock oils are good for shutters... which are essentially clockwork mechanisms. |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 594
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 03:17 pm: |
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Just for interest I stripped down the M2 that I built up 5 years ago, today. This camera has had very hard use since then, both in film usage and harsh environments. There was very clear evidence of the original application of Nyoil still being present - in adequate quantity and lubricity.
As Michael and Brian; and I suspect all of us who use Nyoil have found out, Nyoil is a premier oil that is suitable for use on precision clockwork mechanism. It certainly does not evapourate or dry out when used within the specified ambient temperature range. |
Kkl122002
Tinkerer
Username: Kkl122002
Post Number: 62
Registered: 05-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 05:28 pm: |
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The valve oil I mentioned is used in brass musical instrument. You may find it from musical instrument supply. The spindle oil is diluted with acetone to 5% (= 5 to 95 (to100, as the writer stated?) ), which is suggested by a Japanese writer in his book about repairing Nikon cameras.
I don't know if I should try watch oil or clock oil. They seems sound correct for shutter. I have Moebius 8000/4.
BTw, which molybdenum grease would you use for winding/cocking part of camera? Should I use molybdenum grease? Or Creamic grease? |
Nickon51
Tinkerer
Username: Nickon51
Post Number: 71
Registered: 05-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 10:31 pm: |
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For the clockwork retard mechanism, and self timers, I use a general clock oil "HoroLube". After the gear pivots and plate holes have been cleaned & reassembled, I just use a very small amount on the pivots as you would when lubing a pocket watch or small clock. A small amount on the pallets and star wheel as well.
A fine non spreading grease on the cocking rack etc would be ok, all long as it doesn't give the cocking lever a heavy feel.
Thanks for the explantion of the dilution technique, I hadn't heard of that before.
I'm not familiar with ceramic grease so I can't give any contructive comment there.
The only lube chart I have seen was in a Compur Rapid shutter repair manual. Unfortunately the 4 different lubricants are referred to as no. 1,2,3,4 and no further information is given.
I have a copy of that page if you would like it. |
Gez
Tinkerer
Username: Gez
Post Number: 91
Registered: 09-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 04:35 am: |
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I have a small bottle of 'Nye Clock Oil', made by Nye Lubricants Inc. New Bedford MA. Is this the same as Nyoil as recommended by the forum? It is a good quality oil but appears too viscous to be used on shutter spindles. In my experience 'Rem' oil is very good on shutters. |
Kkl122002
Tinkerer
Username: Kkl122002
Post Number: 63
Registered: 05-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 06:19 am: |
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Hi Nick,
After reading your post about Compur Rapid, I hope to known where are these lubricants being added. Please sent my a copy, my e-mail : [email protected]
A retired repairmen told me one of them might be grease (for cocking shutter), and other 3 would be the oil in different dilution for different parts.
I just ran across a chemistry book, surprising fond that molybdenum grease is more stable in variation of temperature and humidity. And I guess it might be the reason for the pro-cameras to use them. |
Brianshaw
Tinkerer
Username: Brianshaw
Post Number: 57
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 10:03 am: |
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Your retired repairman friend is exactly correct about the four lubricants. There is a similar situation in the Graflex repair manuals where one grease and several different oils are specified. The reasoning seems logical but might be too exacting for practical purposes: higher dilutions will leave the lubricated item with less actual oil than if lubricated with a lower dilution or straight oil. This helps ensure that the parts where too much oil will "gum up the works" will get less oil... presumably "just the right amount". The use of proper oiling tools helps do the same even if only a grease and one "full-strength" oil is used. Those oilng tools are available from clock/watch repair supplies and look basically like needles of differing sizes. One dips the needle in the oil and transfers it to the pivot being oiled - the smaller needle will carry less oil. |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 596
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 05:18 pm: |
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Quote-The spindle oil is diluted with acetone to 5% (= 5 to 95 (to100, as the writer stated?) ), which is suggested by a Japanese writer in his book about repairing Nikon cameras - Quote
I would suggest that the above (taken from a previous post) has lost something in the translation. Diluting oils meant for use on photographic equipment with acetone, is not something I would recommend. Whilst the acetone will not damage metal parts, it will play havoc with any paint, adhesives or shutter blind fabric it comes into contact with. Yes I know that only minute amounts are supposed to be applied, but accidents/errors do occur from time to time. Ketones are far too reactive to be used as diluents, solvent naphtha is the best choice - if one wants to go down the dilution route.
I will second Brian's recommendation to use proper oiling tools - they allow the correct placement of the exact amount needed, and are not expensive. I have even made my own by grinding the tips off hypodermic needles of various gauges. |
Mndean
Tinkerer
Username: Mndean
Post Number: 150
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 07:35 pm: |
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You can get blunt hypodermic needles from railroad hobbyist stores or catalogs, at least I've seen them there. I don't know if they're the right gauge, though. |
Kkl122002
Tinkerer
Username: Kkl122002
Post Number: 64
Registered: 05-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 30, 2009 - 08:21 pm: |
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The retired old repairmen also same as Brian. The oil he used in speed mechanism would be watch oil mainly, and clock oil in some cases.
I believe the the reason compur use different concentration of oil is they want to ensure each part has sufficient lubricant to work. The old repairmen told me the compur can work without oil in some cases.
I also believe Glenn's words. Acetone may also remove the painting on the camera parts and plastic area. They are too reactive. The writer of the book use hypodermic needle to control the amount. I also vote for naphtha as solvent. |
Mikel
Tinkerer
Username: Mikel
Post Number: 149
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 08:21 pm: |
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I would just say to some of the readers of this thread that lubrication recommendations from the 1940's, 50's and even 60's do not take in to account more modern lubricants which have been discussed here.
There is no comparison as there is no comparison of modern and current automobile engine lubricants with those of earlier times.
The choice is up to you but I have made the transition. |
