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Paj
Tinkerer
Username: Paj
Post Number: 1
Registered: 07-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 10:02 am: | 
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Hi everyone,
I have a Kiev 4 that won't advance the film properly. I think the rewind plunger is contacting the film advance spool shaft when the back is in place. Does anyone know how to remove the rewind button and plunger assembly from the bottom of the camera back? Has anyone had similar problems?
Cheers, Paj. |
Mike_kovacs
Tinkerer
Username: Mike_kovacs
Post Number: 17
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 11:18 am: |
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The rewind plunger as you call it sits in the hole under the film sprocket. Is this what you mean by "film advance spool"?
The easy test is simply to wind some film with the back off, don't you think?
Check the button that rewind plunger contacts on the bottom of the film sprocket. Maybe its stuck?
I'm working from memory here - most of my cameras are packed up for a move next month. |
Paj
Tinkerer
Username: Paj
Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 12:26 pm: |
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Hi Mike,
Thanks for your reply. Sorry about the terminology. By film advance spool I mean the toothed sprocket whose teeth engage with the film perforations and advance the film when winding to the next frame. In the centre of this film sprocket is a shaft which if depressed disengages the drive to the film sprocket allowing the film to be rewound. By rewind plunger I am referring to the small pin/rod which the rewind button moves upward to depress the shaft in the centre of the film sprocket.
I have already wound the film with the back off using gentle finger pressure to keep the film on the sprocket teeth and the film appears to advance ok. The button and plunger have full travel and are not jammed but when the back is fitted it appears to make contact with the shaft in the centre of the film sprocket causing disengagement. Now obviously one wouldn't expect this fault unless as a result of play due to wear somewhere in the sprocket mechanism or that before I purchased the camera(I have only had it a short time) the back was changed from another camera, maybe. At the moment I am sorely tempted to file or grind some material from the top of the plunger to shorten its length. But before I do such drastic modification I thought it wise to see what more experienced camera buffs thought.
Once again thanks for your time and advice. |
Fredster
Tinkerer
Username: Fredster
Post Number: 20
Registered: 06-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 04:38 pm: |
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The rewind plunger/button is removed by holding the button still and unscrewing the head of the plunger. The button in fact extends to comprise most of the plunger. The inside bit is a small screw with a large spanner head (two opposed notches instead of a slot). It's possible that this screw has backed out a bit and would cause the film sprocket to freewheel. The screw should be easy to tighten. Finger pressure alone on the release button should hold it in place, but wedging some paper or cloth between it and the camera back might be necessary. |
Paj
Tinkerer
Username: Paj
Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 09:13 am: |
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Thanks Fredster but the head of the plunger rests on the top of the raised round insert which is crimped/rivetted to the base of the camera back so even if I screw it in the length of head protruding will be the same. However there are two brass washers under the head of the plunger, if I disassemble the plunger and remove the washers this should improve matters. Thanks again for your advice, I'll try and unscrew the plunger and remove the washers.
Cheers, Paj. |
Paj
Tinkerer
Username: Paj
Post Number: 4
Registered: 07-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 10:08 am: |
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I have removed the two brass washers and it seems to have cured the problem. Yippee!
Thanks Mike and Fredster for your advice and info.
Cheers Paj. |
Msiegel
Tinkerer
Username: Msiegel
Post Number: 124
Registered: 03-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 10:11 am: |
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Maybe this helps - but I think you know this excellent site already
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/the%20basics%20back%20film%20plane%20casti ng%20removal.html
Martin |
Fredster
Tinkerer
Username: Fredster
Post Number: 21
Registered: 06-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 03:53 pm: |
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Happy to help. There may have been a reason for the washers, even though they were not a good idea. Try advancing a bit of film through the system, counting the sprocket holes to verify spacing. If the sprocket is not working as intended, you might want to do some disassemble. A bit of petrified grease does wonders in messing things up. There are quite a few resources to guide you if you do want to get things apart and back together. |
Harlee
Tinkerer
Username: Harlee
Post Number: 61
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 08:29 pm: |
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I also have a mint Kiev 4 [?] but I cannot depress the rewind button to get the film out. I guess I'll have to dismantle it to see why the button won't depress. After that, up it goes for auction - I personally prefer the FED over the Kiev. |
Paj
Tinkerer
Username: Paj
Post Number: 5
Registered: 07-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 26, 2009 - 05:03 am: |
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Hi
Yes Martin I have found that site and it is excellent, thanks for sending the link anyway.
Fredster, I have checked the sprocket teeth rotate the same number each time (9 counting the first one) so unless there is something else occurring when the film is in and the back on then I'm hoping this problem is solved.
Actually the next thing I've noticed is that at about 6m on the lens distance scale the focussing seems to "miss a tooth" and the split image moves in consequence. Don't know if it is wear, damage or a quirk of the design - what do you think?
Think I know what Harlee means, got a FED 2 and it just seems so much more pleasant to use! |
Fredster
Tinkerer
Username: Fredster
Post Number: 23
Registered: 06-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 26, 2009 - 12:55 pm: |
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Congratulation. You have an unusual problem. The rangefinder system is simple and fairly robust. You might have a gear with a bad tooth, although there are only 3 gears involved and they are quite large, as camera gears go. Incidently, the lens helical is also a gear of sorts. The helical has two windows, 1 for the infinity lock, and another where the focusing gear meshes into it. This second window is near the 6M marking on the distance scale when the infinity lock is engaged. It might be that there is some gunk at that second opening and as the helical moves to the 6M position it's dragging the gears. But then again, I always blame old lubricant for old camera faults. |
