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Message |
    
Mark2000
Tinkerer
Username: Mark2000
Post Number: 7
Registered: 08-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, February 26, 2012 - 11:50 pm: | 
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I'm having a disagreement with a seller and I just wanted to see what other's thought of the situation. I just bought a 100mm Pen FT lens from ebay for $145 and when it showed up it was quite filthy inside and out. There may be some fungus, but definitely dirt. The lens was described as clear.
http://mark2000.com/zuiko100mm/
I know eBay gets a bad rap around here, but I've bought a lot of stuff off there and even international sellers haven't burned me yet. This is a first. Focal Point usually will clean a lens this complex for $150. It's not a rare lens, but it will require me to go on the hunt again if I have to send it back. So I showed the seller pictures and asked for $70 to clean it - going half and half. He basically thought I was nuts and just wants me to send it back for a refund. I personally don't know how this benefits him unless he plans to sell it to another rube and hope they don't complain. Otherwise he's on the hook for the full cleaning plus my return shipping money. Who's being unreasonable? |
Finnegan
Tinkerer
Username: Finnegan
Post Number: 124
Registered: 09-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2012 - 06:49 am: |
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Send it back for a refund. It is considered bad etiquette to expect a seller to fund a restoration even if the item was incorrectly described. The seller may relist with an updated description or have his own private repair source to correct the problem at wholesale cost to him before relisting. |
Brianshaw
Tinkerer
Username: Brianshaw
Post Number: 117
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2012 - 07:55 am: |
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I'm with Finnegan -- either accept it as is or return it and get a refund. I don't want to answer your question because I'd be force to asy that the seller is the reasonable one. I'm sure you have goo ditnentions but there are a lot of ebay buyes who use this type of approach to blackmail and embezzle sellers. If it is old gear it is likely to be somewhat dirty. If it not as described/depticted, then you have a good reason to return it. Fr a seller to relist an item like this is not deceptive at all. The camera is not in the condition you want, but it may be completely acceptable to another buyer. |
Neuberger
Tinkerer
Username: Neuberger
Post Number: 67
Registered: 01-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2012 - 08:47 am: |
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There are definitely no global commonly agreed standards establishing a ranking list from squeaky clean to absolutely dirty.
I do not want to take sides here, but what you describe as filthy looks like ordinary sawdust/wormdust that can easily blown off with a blower brush.
If not:
You certainly did not buy the lens without closely inspecting the photos when it was on offer, did you? What did the photos reveal/ conceal?
If you were the seller of an item that was offered, and bought, what would you think of the customer finally asking for massive reductions instead of accepting a full refund? |
Mark2000
Tinkerer
Username: Mark2000
Post Number: 8
Registered: 08-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2012 - 08:48 am: |
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To me a seller's first priority should be to make amends to the buyer. I've had plenty of situations where a seller - possibly even knowing the jig is up - will automatically offer discounts before I need to suggest them. So I don't think it's particularly bad form. I'll naturally be sending it back, but I will be warning the rest of ebay what to expect. You have to admit there is not a lot more aggravating than receiving something you took the time to bid on and need/anticipate just to open it up and find it in bad shape. There's a level of trust broken. |
Brianshaw
Tinkerer
Username: Brianshaw
Post Number: 118
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2012 - 10:18 am: |
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Mark, forgive me for being blunt... but I have no other way of saying htis. "Warning" all of ebay is the most flagrant violation of "good form". Get your oney back, be happy, and look for a camera that meets your needs and expectations. Don't try to "get even". Your priorities and sense of ethics is misplaced. As long as YOU are made whole (meaning you returned the camera and received a refund) anything else is spiteful and vindictive in the worst possible way. Your time spent finding an old camera is not valuable and compensation for that is rediculous to expect. There is no trust broken if the seller is agreeable to a return. I understand disappointment, but one can't expect 100% satisfaction all the time in every situation... especially with regard to buying old camera ear on an auction site. Again, sorry for being so blunt. |
Brcamera
Tinkerer
Username: Brcamera
Post Number: 157
Registered: 08-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2012 - 10:27 am: |
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I would have to agree with the other posters that the thing to do is to return it for a refund. I looked at the original ebay listing and this seller does not normally sell photo equipment so they most likely are not familiar with camera lenses and the fact they said to return it for a refund shows good faith in my book. As for the seller, I would mention to them that they probably should improve their photo skills as the photos are a bit out of focus so they may not show defects on an item. |
Brianshaw
Tinkerer
Username: Brianshaw
Post Number: 119
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2012 - 12:42 pm: |
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I looked at Mark's pics. That is dirty. Yuck. I would be very interested to see what the ebay ad photos looked like. Mark... can you post a link? |
Mark2000
Tinkerer
Username: Mark2000
Post Number: 9
Registered: 08-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2012 - 02:42 pm: |
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/330685639719?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m149 7.l2649#ht_500wt_922
I'm glad you finally looked at the pics. This isn't really a case of prissy "there's a dot on my 40 year old lens" freak out. You can check the items I've bought in the past and the fact that I haven't give neg feedback in 2 years. I know the difference between a mistake and a lie. |
Mndean
Tinkerer
Username: Mndean
Post Number: 275
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2012 - 04:57 pm: |
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Did that "dirt" come from the inside of the lens case? If so, I call inexperienced seller. It's better never to use those old lens cases as the material in many of them breaks down to dust and is nearly impossible to get out. I think it's better just to send it back if you're dissatisfied. |
Brianshaw
Tinkerer
Username: Brianshaw
Post Number: 120
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2012 - 06:06 pm: |
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Mark... It looks to me as if the lens went through a mud puddle somewhere between the seller and you. Yikes! I agree... you are not being prissy or over-reactive. My suggestion is to return, get your money back and look for another lens! |
Mark2000
Tinkerer
Username: Mark2000
Post Number: 10
Registered: 08-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, February 27, 2012 - 07:42 pm: |
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Mndean. That's the first thing I thought of, but the case doesn't seem to shedding with a few taps on the table. Plus the caps were on. |
Mndean
Tinkerer
Username: Mndean
Post Number: 276
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2012 - 08:42 am: |
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Ah. That's a different kettle of fish, then. With the caps on, that much material shouldn't be able to get on the lens surfaces. Getting your money back is probably best, another one will come along soon enough. |
Br1078lum
Tinkerer
Username: Br1078lum
Post Number: 236
Registered: 11-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2012 - 07:03 pm: |
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I don't know how many times I've had to clean all the 'mint' off something I got on the bay. Oil stains, crumbs, even chocolate smears. I've even gotten stuff that the sellers swore up and down they spent a half hour cleaning it before shipping, only to spend my own half hour finishing the job.
That said, have you tried seeing how badly that is adhered to the lens? Is it just dust? A few puffs from an air bulb might improve the looks tremendously. Dust inside a lens will usually not even begin to degrade the image quality, unless you are pointing the lens directly at a light source, or it is heavily distributed. I've got a Zeiss Opton 50mm with it's own issues, and you can't tell there is a thing wrong with it from the output on film.
Give it a cleaning, taking photos of the before and after to show the seller. Expose some film in it to check for flaring and other abnormailties that could come from dirty elements. If not happy after that, get a refund.
PF |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 976
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2012 - 06:34 am: |
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Dear oh dear! How did we fill our waking hours before the advent of the internet and G3? Certainly in a more productive manner than we do now, I bet!
The lens looks decidedly 'grubby' in the original eBay listing, so that should have rung a few warning bells. However, as the seller offered an immediate full refund what's all the bitching about?
No wonder silver halide is fast disappearing into antiquity, we all spend our waking hours looking at a computer screen. |
Thol
Tinkerer
Username: Thol
Post Number: 6
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 02, 2012 - 05:59 am: |
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"Clear" is a pretty weak description for the condition of a lens. If it transmits light to the naked eye in a sharp and "unsmeared" manner, someone can term it clear despite any mushrooms, dust and other detritus being on it. For that reason, it may be reasonable for any 'concerned' bidder to sharply question the seller for more description — that is in VERY specific terms.
Yes, I have done exactly this on the few occasions I bought sight unseen. If the answers do not satisfy you, you can chose to butt-out of the bid. If you are looking for a parts unit vis a vis mechanical parts, you may choose to forge ahead albeit with a price ceiling in mind.
I agree with some of the above posts. If he refunds yer money, leave him be — IF the lens is not blotched by corrosive effects of fungus or abrazed in some evil way ... or if there is a detritus problem in the interior lens elements. In the case that these really are relevant factors, I'd give the seller the benefit of the doubt and let him off with a love-tap sort of caning in regards to how mushrooms and interior crud are factors that must be demonstrated or otherwise declared. We may have to assume that he/she is just ignorant. Get yer refund and be nice.
In regards to other products, I've had to do the same thing. There is always a chance that due to the seller's ignorance, you can turn out to be the bigger a-hole instead of being an educator.
Sorry to say ... I'm being a bit blunt like some members above. But there is the rub — eBay and other auctions get to this place on occasion. After a while, you get to know who are sellers who know their stuff and are not sharking — and otherwise you get to know those who are predatory. And even then if one sneaks through, in order to protect their record, they may offer you satisfaction. It can all be a PITA. But that is part of the auction experience. Otherwise you go to a reputable seller and buy a unit that has a CLA certificate and a 60 day warranty — and pay something for it.
You can win many times ... be disappointed sometimes ... and even if you are on your guard, you can even if rarely, get truly screwed.
My two bits. A bit long-winded perhaps, but I think that every auction bidder has to bear in mind the comprehensive issues of on-line auction sales. Cameras are a particularly sensitive case. I've come to some disappointment when buying old cameras even after examining and playing with them for an hour. In many ways they are like watches. They are time pieces with an optical complication. If you know a thing about mechanical/analog timepieces, you'll get my drift right away.
Best of luck ... Thol |
