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Mr_flibble
Tinkerer
Username: Mr_flibble
Post Number: 48
Registered: 10-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2012 - 01:27 am: | 
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I'm currently working on restoring a Voigtländer Brillant for someone.
The biggest job will be the 2 small brass plates on the shutter with the speeds, brand name, aperture and focus distance. These were oxidized and had major paint loss.
Yesterday, with the go-ahead of the owner I've stripped all the remaining paint and oxidation off the plates and coated them with a single layer of Testor's glossy black. Then left it to cure.
Later today I'll be attempting to fill in the engravings.
The engravings are quite small and shallow so using testor's white enamel paint probably won't stick in the engravings when wiping off the excess.
Anyone ever used crayon this? I know people who've used this for filling in engravings on their guns.
I will warm up the plates and then wipe on the crayon. Then scrape off the excess with piece of cardboard.
I have no idea what to use to clean up the rest of the overflow that I can't scrape off without taking the wax out of the engravings.
If I do get it right, I intend to give the plates a coat of varnish to seal in the crayon.
Any tips are appreciated,
Regards,
Rick |
Cooltouch
Tinkerer
Username: Cooltouch
Post Number: 196
Registered: 01-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2012 - 10:56 pm: |
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Speaking of filling in engraving on guns, I've seen white-out used. The only problem with white-out, though is it will soil and turn a brownish gray color if it comes into contact much with finger dirt. But it's easy enough to remove and replace, far as that goes.
If I were you, I'd go ahead and try the Testors anyway. Never can tell, it might just work. Especially if you use like a dental pick or a fine needle and scratch away the black paint from inside the engraving's grooves. |
Mr_flibble
Tinkerer
Username: Mr_flibble
Post Number: 51
Registered: 10-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2012 - 12:23 am: |
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Cheers,
The testor's enamel black paint is taking a while to cure apparently. First attempt last wednesday to take off the excess white paint took off most of the black paint as well 
Stripped it all down again and reapplied the black paint. I'll leave it to cure until Sunday now, just to make sure. If that doens't work I'll have to try a different paint.
Hadn't thought about using white-out. |
Paul_ron
Tinkerer
Username: Paul_ron
Post Number: 269
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2012 - 07:53 am: |
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The problem with using enamel paints is they scratch n chip easily. Powder coat is the paint of choice on cameras.
There is a paint crayon used by engravers in sign shops that has the consistancy of crayon but hardens like paint n doesn't yellow, no lead, and doesn't attract dirt n grime.
. |
Mr_flibble
Tinkerer
Username: Mr_flibble
Post Number: 52
Registered: 10-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 09, 2012 - 01:31 am: |
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Hmm.. Enamel and crayon don't seem to mix very well. The black enamel wipes off like it was an uncured coat after applying the crayon.
So now the plan is black enamel paint base coat, fill in the engravings with acryllic white paint and wipe off the excess with a little alcohol. |
Br1078lum
Tinkerer
Username: Br1078lum
Post Number: 206
Registered: 11-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 09, 2012 - 08:08 pm: |
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Rick, would it make the paint better if you baked it for an hour? Or is this on a piece that is not seperate from the camera body? |
Mr_flibble
Tinkerer
Username: Mr_flibble
Post Number: 53
Registered: 10-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2012 - 12:02 am: |
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Yeah, they are just attached by screws. I've had both tags over a heat source, but the enamel just becomes/stays soft from the heat. I think I need to cure it under UV lighting or something.
Curses! |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 965
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2012 - 10:46 am: |
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Unfortunately most modern acrylic paints do not stove properly, and I have found the modern day 'environment friendly' Testor's products to be pretty crap in that respect. Unfortunately you have made the biggest blunder the DIY restorer can make - experimenting on the customer's camera, instead of finding a workable solution first. All brass items should be etched primed before top coating, otherwise the enamel will soon wear off, and then covered with a good quality enamel. There are a number of suitable enamels available, Microtools sells both a gloss and a satin black that not only goes on well, but will stove off at around 80/100 degs in the domestic oven.Do a google search and then request a small sample from your nearest manufacturer - always go to the manufacturer and not their local agent/supplier. I have always found these small specialised firms to be most helpful. The original Humbrol gloss enamel formulation from the 1970s/80s can also produce a hardened surface by stoving.
When the enamel is cold and fully dry you can fill in the engraving with a white acrylic enamel, using a fine brush to fully fill the indentations and set aside to touch dry. To remove the excess white paint, place a piece of thick cardboard on a flat surface and wet the card with white spirit or naphtha. Make sure the card is fully wetted and that there is no solvent pooling on the surface of the card. Now place the painted item, engraving down, on the solvent soaked card and make a single wiping action, repeat the single wiping stroke on a clean area of card until only the engraving is filled with paint. Never use a solvent soaked cloth on the finger to remove excess white paint, doing this will drag the infill from the engraving vee.
The use of powder coatings on fine objects such as camera body parts should be approached with caution. I use powder coating as the primer coat when restoring vintage/classic motorcycle - the coating fills ALL surface imperfections and when rubbed down provides a superb surface for a traditional spray finish. Take your nicely engraved top-plate to your average local powder coater and you will never see the engraving again!
For a real insight into DIY refinishing of painted metal parts try and get hold of a reprint of a late Victorian or Edwardian book on the subject. The subject matter is still of value today and can allow one to use many modern paint formulations to their best advantage in the home workshop or on the kitchen table. |
Paul_ron
Tinkerer
Username: Paul_ron
Post Number: 271
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2012 - 06:36 pm: |
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BTW the crayon I was refering to is used to fill the engravings not to paint the part.
It comes in an assortment of colors and is relatively cheap. It hardens to paint, not wax based, it is actually oil based paint.
Go to a local sign shop n ask them to fill your engrqvings... I'm sure they will do it no charge or very little cost.
. |
Mr_flibble
Tinkerer
Username: Mr_flibble
Post Number: 54
Registered: 10-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - 12:55 am: |
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Thanks Glenn and Paul,
In my defence, the plates was pretty much unreadable anyway. Giving it a fresh coat of any type of paint after cleaning was an improvement according to the owner ;)
I will look into getting a proper enamel paint to bake! And try to gather somee info at the local sign/key shops
Unfortunately the tag with the distance scale and f-stops on it has two protrusions on it that won't allow it to lie down flat on a moist card to clean off the excess filler.
Cheers,
Rick |
Gauntlet71
Tinkerer
Username: Gauntlet71
Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2012
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 03, 2012 - 09:55 am: |
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I've had great success (and fun) with Lacquer Stiks from Micro Tools. Rub on and wipe off turning your tissue or cloth a couple of times. I bought all the colours except gold and they match my Rollei and Yashica TLRs perfectly. |
Paul_ron
Tinkerer
Username: Paul_ron
Post Number: 289
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 07, 2012 - 08:17 am: |
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Those are the crayons I told you about that sign makers use to fill engravings. they are great to work with n look really nice when restoring speed n F-stop rings. |
Gauntlet71
Tinkerer
Username: Gauntlet71
Post Number: 3
Registered: 06-2012
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 07, 2012 - 11:24 am: |
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I totally agree Paul. I like to fill in the little red dot on the rings of folding cameras. It's this kind of detailing that I enjoy, like restoring vintage cars but on a kinder budget and size! YS. |
Mr_flibble
Tinkerer
Username: Mr_flibble
Post Number: 70
Registered: 10-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 08, 2012 - 10:28 am: |
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I have a Lacquer Stik (tm) from Micro Tools, already used it with some success on the logo of my Rolleiflex old Standard.
I had no luck with it on the Brillant engravings, wiping off the the white stuff in the engravings together with the overflow.
I'll attempt it again with a little more patience ;) |
Fallisphoto
Tinkerer
Username: Fallisphoto
Post Number: 260
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 22, 2012 - 07:03 pm: |
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Testers is not a good paint for cameras. It is designed to stick to plastic, not metal. You need an automotive grade enamel or an epoxy appliance paint. If you use the enamel, you need to bake it to make it harden. |
Graywolf
Tinkerer
Username: Graywolf
Post Number: 4
Registered: 07-2012
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 21, 2012 - 03:29 pm: |
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If I remember correctly, you can not use lacquer over enamel. The solvents in the lacquer will soften the enamel. |
Fallisphoto
Tinkerer
Username: Fallisphoto
Post Number: 280
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2012 - 10:16 am: |
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Mr_flibble, I't's 5 months after my last reply to this post and I find myself in the same position. I've taken the entire camera down to bare metal, repainted it and those two brass plates are a pain. The engraving is really shallow. I have three ideas I can try. For the first, I painted the brass plates black and scratched the paint out of the recesses with a dental pick. I did this with one coat of paint and I am going to apply at least one more coat, scratching the paint out of the recesses. This will give me recesses that are a little deeper and maybe the white paint will stay in them when I sand them off with crocus cloth. If it doesn't, then I propose to sand the whole plate off again, varnish it, and use a dental pick to scratch the varnish out of the lettering; then I'll apply a chemical brass blackening agent and another coat of varnish. This will give me black letters on a brass background. My last resort is to paint the whole thing black and make a decal. |
Mr_flibble
Tinkerer
Username: Mr_flibble
Post Number: 91
Registered: 10-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 03, 2012 - 12:39 am: |
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The camera in question has gone back to its owner a few months back.
In the end I carefully hand-painted the markings with several layers of very thinned-down acrillic paint. And cleaning up any mistakes as they happened.
It was very time consuming and it didn't look super, but my friend was very happy with it. As the result was better than it had been before the whole clean-up.
Someone else suggested taking the part down to the bare metal, fill the markings with grease, then wipe off the excess and paint it. After drying remove the grease from the engravings. |
Fallisphoto
Tinkerer
Username: Fallisphoto
Post Number: 281
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2012 - 12:10 pm: |
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I tried everything else and it looked pretty bad. I think I am going to go with the decal. I know that will look good, under two or three coats of tung oil varnish. |
Mr_flibble
Tinkerer
Username: Mr_flibble
Post Number: 92
Registered: 10-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 01:34 pm: |
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There's something model builders use to soften up decals so they'll form to the surface they're put on, to give that painted-on look.
Micro-Sol Decal Solvent, I used this stuff a lot when I was building WW1 model aircraft for a game.
The decal hardens when the stuff evaporates.
Might be something to look into if you're going down that road. |
Fallisphoto
Tinkerer
Username: Fallisphoto
Post Number: 284
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2012 - 10:47 am: |
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Mr flibble, I already sanded and polished the plates down smooth, so the decals would sit flat. |
