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Fedupwithdigital
Tinkerer
Username: Fedupwithdigital
Post Number: 9
Registered: 07-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 05:33 pm: | 
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My newly acquired, non-working Konica C35 has a problem. The shutter button is pushed all the way in and seems to be jammed.
I've opened the camera up and can't see any way of releasing it. I tried a bit of Ronsonol but nothing changed.
Because the shutter button is fully in, the meter needle is trapped. I thought I had an electrical problem but, having discovered the relevant arm that engages the needle trap, moving it temporarily frees the needle and the CDS cell is responsive to light, the needle moves etc.
If only I could get this shutter button to free up I think this camera would be a goer.
Anyone got any ideas? |
Br1078lum
Tinkerer
Username: Br1078lum
Post Number: 328
Registered: 11-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 15, 2012 - 07:28 pm: |
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How far did you open up the camera? This model doesn't have the delay timer, so that can't be a problem. I did some work on a C35 Automatic, but it was to replace the battery wire. However, you may see something in them that may help you. On Flickr at http://flic.kr/s/aHsjyQ4QrZ
PF |
Fedupwithdigital
Tinkerer
Username: Fedupwithdigital
Post Number: 10
Registered: 07-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 02:46 am: |
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Thanks, PF. I had found your Flickr photos before I started to dismantle the C35 and they were a great help.
As for how far I got, I had the top and bottom covers off, the lens plate off and the shutter plate off too. I didn't bother desoldering any wires (so it was all a bit awkward) but I did unscrew the battery holder to get a bit of slack in the wiring.
The shutter button "plunger arm" (no idea what the proper technical name is!) is fully depressed (unlike me - I'm only slightly depressed so far). And it just won't budge. Everything else seems to move. The shutter/aperture opens and closes if I move the appropriate bit and, as stated earlier, I can disengage the needle trap, etc.
The actual shutter mechanism - as illustrated in this photo from Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/januskohl/1025975991/in/photostream/ - seems to be the source of my problem. There must be something stopping the shutter plunger arm from returning to its starting position. The long spring is present, so it's not that.
This C35 does have a delay timer. The arm was in the straight up position when I dismantled the camera, so I'd assumed that my problem wasn't a jammed timer.
But maybe the timer is jammed after all? |
Br1078lum
Tinkerer
Username: Br1078lum
Post Number: 329
Registered: 11-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 09:15 pm: |
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So, FedUp, is yours the 'Automatic'? A jammed timer will hold the shutter button down. Someone could have cranked the timer lever back to it's up position, or it could have run to that point, and jammed at the end. Can you move the winder lever any? Does the timer lever have any play in it? After looking at one of my C35 Auto's waiting for seals, the action of the timer is after the run, the shutter trips, and then the release button pops back up. Since it can't hurt too much more, try to reset the timer, and see if it starts running immediately. That will tell you if it's jammed or not, and who knows, maybe the shutter release button will pop back up at the end. Try it with the bottom and top covers off so you can watch the actions of all the levers and gears.
PF |
Br1078lum
Tinkerer
Username: Br1078lum
Post Number: 330
Registered: 11-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2012 - 09:25 pm: |
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One other, kind of off-the-wall thought. Did the chrome shutter release button come off when you removed the top cover? If not, it may be that it was put back on wrong by the previous owner, and is now jammed down in the mechanism.
It has a cam on it that should face towards the rear of the camera, and just sits on top of the release lever. If this was facing towards the front, the cover put back on, and the button depressed, it most likely is up against the inside of the front of the body. If the button is still in the camera, try putting a release cable on it, and pulling the button up. Watch out, and have a good grip on both camera and cable, as things may go flying.
PF |
Fedupwithdigital
Tinkerer
Username: Fedupwithdigital
Post Number: 13
Registered: 07-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 17, 2012 - 11:45 am: |
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Thanks again, PF.
It wasn't the chrome button being stuck. That was removed but still no change.
And I'm pretty sure my C35 isn't the "Automatic" - the innards are different from those shown on your Flickr photo stream - there's no "Automatic" badge.
Here are photos of innards with the top cover and base plate off, and of the rear of the shutter plate.
  
I've been wallpapering all weekend but will have another look at the shutter mechanism tonight (hopefully). |
Fedupwithdigital
Tinkerer
Username: Fedupwithdigital
Post Number: 14
Registered: 07-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 19, 2012 - 05:32 pm: |
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Okay dokey.
Have had another look and was able to free the shutter plunger. But if I depress it again, it jams again. I've found the immediate source of the jam.
In this first picture below, the shutter plunger is free. Rougly halfway along the shutter mechanism you'll see that the plunger arm has a tab, bent at 90 degrees (just below the long black spring and near the copper coloured part). In this picture it is free. Behind this is another plate with a notch in it (to the right of the tab).
When the shutter button is depressed, this tab moves down (left to right in the picture) and engages with the plate behind. It is caught by that plate. And as the tab is caught, the copper coloured "arm" is pushed out.
This second picture shows that copper coloured arm pushed out and the shutter plunger arm tab caught by the plate.
The odd thing is that, if I push the copper coloured arm, it pushes against the plate with the notch - which is the plate that has caught and held the tab on the shutter plunger arm - and this disengages the plate from the shutter plunger and the plunger returns to its original position.
I would also add that, when fully depressing the shutter plunger, it starts to push the plate out of the way itself. But there doesn't seem to be enough travel in the plunger arm to allow this to happen.
Does anyone know what I'm describing here?! Or is it all gobbledegook!?
What actuates the copper coloured arm under normal circumstances to free up the shutter plunger? I reassembled the camera but it doesn't seem to mesh with anything. I wondered if it hit off the internal wall of the camera body but that doesn't seem to be the case. And this copper coloured arm doesn't seem to be sprung - when the shutter is depressed, it just flaps around.
Help!!! |
Fedupwithdigital
Tinkerer
Username: Fedupwithdigital
Post Number: 15
Registered: 07-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - 03:16 am: |
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To add to my last post, I'm reasonably sure that the plate with the notch, which the tab on the shutter plunger arm engages with, is the piece of the shutter/timer mechanism which engages the needle trap so that the exposure is set.
Under normal operation I assume that winding on the film cocks the shutter. Then, when the shutter is depressed, it engages this plate to trap the meter needle. But it shouldn't be caught like this - if you release the shutter button without having taken a shot, the plate should disengage the needle and the shutter plunger arm should return to the ready position.
I don't think it should stick like this. It's working like an exposure lock - but one that doesn't release even after the shutter is fired!
So what could be stopping this all from happening normally? |
Br1078lum
Tinkerer
Username: Br1078lum
Post Number: 334
Registered: 11-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - 07:53 pm: |
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You may have to keep looking along the geartrain to see what activates the catch. Could be something has been knocked out of alignment, either by the shock of a drop, or just plain wear. I had a Compur Rapid shutter that just wouldn't work right until I bent a tab back into position. Fifty years of actuations had pushed it out to the point it wouldn't catch anymore.
PF |
Fedupwithdigital
Tinkerer
Username: Fedupwithdigital
Post Number: 16
Registered: 07-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 02:20 am: |
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Thanks again PF for all your help so far.
I'll do what you suggest. I also read somewhere that small things, like springs and screws, can get stuck on or near the galvanometer due to its magnetism! There was a screw missing from the lens plate - someone has been here before me! Maybe it (or something else) is stuck in the works.
I've also found this helpful site - in Japanese but Google translate helps a lot - http://endoscopy.jp/moto/camera/camera_repair/c35/index.htm?7cdd0018
This C35 is basically the same model as mine, rather than the automatic in the Flickr posts I've seen so far.
The site has a lot of other cameras,including the C35 automatic and the C35 V. The index page is here - http://endoscopy.jp/moto/camera/.
Sorry if I'm telling you something you already know! |
Br1078lum
Tinkerer
Username: Br1078lum
Post Number: 336
Registered: 11-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2012 - 11:15 am: |
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Fed, it cracks me up everytime I do a translate on a Japanese site. Their language is a bit flowery, and the auto-translators don't make it easy to figure out what they mean. And though I have seen the endosopy site you provided the links to, others may not have, so it's always good to share the links.
I may be getting the original C35 mixed up with another camera that didn't have a self timer on the original version, or yours is a late run before they came out with the Automatic. The V model has no rangefinder. Your top shutter speed should be 1/500, while on the Automatic it is 1/650. I believe there is an increase in ISO range too, in conjunction with the faster shutter.
A problem like you are experiencing is not an easy one to track down, especially when you don't have a proper example next to you to compare with, or can see something obvious. Methinks the previous owner couldn't figure it out, and sold the camera for that reason.
PF |
Fedupwithdigital
Tinkerer
Username: Fedupwithdigital
Post Number: 19
Registered: 07-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 22, 2012 - 05:49 am: |
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PF
I'm going to persevere with this. One benefit of finding other people's photos is that I've spotted something "different" (wrong?) already.
In the picture below, I've added a red circle round a part of the shutter timer mechanism. In all the other pictures I've seen, the small metal plate is not sticking out like my one and the long black spring is not being stretched like it is in my one.
So I suspect this piece, or what it connects to, might be part of the problem.
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Br1078lum
Tinkerer
Username: Br1078lum
Post Number: 337
Registered: 11-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, June 22, 2012 - 06:36 pm: |
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Fed, that looks like the tensioning spring that gives the delay drivetrain it's momentum. And since the spring is tensioned, that means the delay has not released, therefore, your shutter button will not reset. Start manipulating whatever levers you can find that are associated with the delay to see if any of them get it to working. That 4503 lever looks like a good place to start.
If you can get it to run, then put a drop or two of lighter fluid (Ronsonal, or whatever brand you can find) on the gears, and run it a few times until the fluid dissipates. Repeat that a couple more times to make sure all the gears have been cleaned. Hold the geartrain in a position so that the fluid doesn't get all over the inside of the camera, as it may dissolve some lubricant that you don't want it to.
PF |
Fedupwithdigital
Tinkerer
Username: Fedupwithdigital
Post Number: 22
Registered: 07-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 - 05:36 am: |
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Have tried to free this up but no joy so far.
The spring, and the part it's attached to, look like they should return of their own accord. The part (which sadly can't really be seen in the photos posted) has a small cog attached to it. The cog is engaged in one direction only by a large brass toothed wheel. It obviously has something to do with the shutter speed. I can, by turning this wheel, make the piece connected to the tensioning spring move - but only in the direction that puts the spring under even more tension. Turning this brass wheel in the other direction does nothing. I suspect that the whole thing should freewheel in the other direction after the shutter is fired, brought back by the spring. But it's still stuck.
I've also noticed a small wire spring that seems to be unconnected to anything. But it is very near the small copper coloured piece described in an earlier post and looks like it would engage with it were it about 1mm longer. I don't know if it's broken or just the wrong way round.
More investigation is needed! |
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