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Donyet
Tinkerer
Username: Donyet
Post Number: 51
Registered: 06-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 06:40 pm: | 
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This is regarding the Yashica-Mat LM camera that I was so generously tutored through a shutter repair by Mareklew last year.
I seem to have stumbled on another problem.
I tried putting a roll of film through it and have found that the winding mechanism is not working. When you wind the crank, the winder inside the camera seems to be dis-engaged. The little winder "nub" is not winding the film, neither is the rod with the gears inside the film compartment moving.
Is there something I pressed that needs to be reset? I have two other Yashica-Mats that work fine so I have a good idea how to use them. This is the first time I've come across this problem.
Does anyone have any solutions or suggestions?
Thanks,
Alex |
Denny
Tinkerer
Username: Denny
Post Number: 72
Registered: 08-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2011 - 10:07 pm: |
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On my EM the winding crank was "slipping" in that it wasn't engaging the ratchet. You can check this thread
https://kyp.hauslendale.com/classics/forum/messages/2/18920.html
Good Luck |
Donyet
Tinkerer
Username: Donyet
Post Number: 52
Registered: 06-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 02:02 pm: |
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Thanks Denny, I will read the thread you mentioned. |
Mareklew
Tinkerer
Username: Mareklew
Post Number: 225
Registered: 03-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 06:09 am: |
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Hi Alex, long time no see ;P
The rod with the gear will not move by itself, it's supposed to be driven by the film spool (frame counter measures the actual length of backing paper that was wound rather the number of turns the spool made).
AFAIR there's nothing that can disengage the winding mechanics. The only part that I'd suspect is something dodgy about the free-wheel ratchet that lets you turn the crank backwards. Do you hear clicking sound when turning the main crank *back*? Do you hear any when turning *forward*?
If none can be heard, then you've got it: there's either too much grease or it stuck or the spring slipped.
I don't have my Yashica around, so I'm running on my memory alone, but AFAIR you have to hear the ratchet at least in one direction.
Marek |
Donyet
Tinkerer
Username: Donyet
Post Number: 53
Registered: 06-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2011 - 09:31 am: |
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Hi Marek,
I will check for a clicking sound when I get home tonight.
I know the previous owner of the camera, and he told me that the camera used to belong to his ex-wife and was last used in the late 1960s. Apparently it was taken to a camera store for service shortly before everything started to go wrong with the camera. I suspect someone may have been too generous with the lubricants at the camera store, thus explaining not only this problem, but the frozen shutter that you helped me repair.
I will keep you informed.
Thanks,
Alex |
Mareklew
Tinkerer
Username: Mareklew
Post Number: 227
Registered: 03-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2011 - 09:51 am: |
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Hi,
thanks for the update.
Just for the record: I'm off into the Bushes™ for the next week, starting tomorrow. So you are on your own till 8th of August ;)
Good luck!
Marek |
Donyet
Tinkerer
Username: Donyet
Post Number: 54
Registered: 06-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 30, 2011 - 04:05 pm: |
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Hello Marek,
I do hear a clicking pulling the crank both forwards and backwards. To be more specific, turning the crank forward I hear the constant cranking of gears and two clicks one after the other, then when I crank backwards I don't hear gears but I do hear the clicking as the shutter is cocked. I'm guessing this sounds normal.
I tried it with a couple of cameras that do work, another Yashica Mat LM and a Yashica Mat, and each one sounds different so it's difficult to compare.
I hope you are having a good time out in the "bush", I assume this means you are camping? |
Mareklew
Tinkerer
Username: Mareklew
Post Number: 230
Registered: 03-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2011 - 08:19 am: |
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So, I;m back from the bushes™, we went down some river in Poland, beautiful landscape, quiet nature, very nice ;)
Have you tried opening your Yashica yet?
Marek |
Donyet
Tinkerer
Username: Donyet
Post Number: 55
Registered: 06-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 12:42 pm: |
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Hi Marek,
I just got back from my vacation to the state of Texas. It was too hot.
No, I have not opened up the winder side of the camera yet. I wanted to make sure that was the thing to do. I guess it's time to open her up and take a look.
I will get back to you as soon as I do.
Alex |
Donyet
Tinkerer
Username: Donyet
Post Number: 56
Registered: 06-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 09, 2012 - 06:49 pm: |
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I apologize for being away for so long. Life managed to get in the way of my hobbies and I have just now been able to get back to this project. I hope all of you who were helping me are willing to help me out again. I should have more time at least for a couple of months.
Unfortunately one of the previous owners of this camera decided to glue the leather that was over the side plate with some very strong glue. I finally got though it though.
I have opened up the plate on the winder side of the camera, and have taken a pic and taken notes on it for clarity. It seems the winder disengages intermittently and just turns freely, thus not winding the film roll. Should I follow the other thread above or is this another problem?
Thanks,Alex
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Donyet
Tinkerer
Username: Donyet
Post Number: 57
Registered: 06-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 09, 2012 - 07:01 pm: |
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Reading the link from Denny above it seems that it is indeed the same problem. Unfortunately I don't have any diagrams for dis-assembly. I assume I will need to use a spanner wrench to get to the ratchet. Does the nut holding the winder down unscrew clockwise or counter clockwise? I found it really tight and would like to find out before I force it the wrong way and mess something up.
Thank you,
Alex |
Denny
Tinkerer
Username: Denny
Post Number: 99
Registered: 08-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 09, 2012 - 09:04 pm: |
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Donyet - Try this
http://benoit.suaudeau.perso.neuf.fr/manuels_rep/mf/Yashica_mat_124%20G/Yashica_ Mat_124G.html
It is for a Yashica 124G, but the winding side is very similar as my EM and it appears your LM. See image No. 5.
If I recall, the "rotary disk nut" unscrews counter-clockwise. I used a snap ring pliers that had bent tips. I put the crank handle back on to hold the shaft while loosening the nut.
Good Luck.
Denny |
Donyet
Tinkerer
Username: Donyet
Post Number: 58
Registered: 06-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2012 - 06:27 pm: |
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Thanks Denny, I was wondering how I would hold the thing while I unscrewed the nut. The snap ring plier idea is good too.
I will report back.
Alex |
Donyet
Tinkerer
Username: Donyet
Post Number: 59
Registered: 06-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2012 - 08:13 pm: |
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YAY! It works now.
Thanks you Denny and Marek! Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Now to take some long awaited photos.
Alex |
Denny
Tinkerer
Username: Denny
Post Number: 101
Registered: 08-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2012 - 08:17 pm: |
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Glad to have been some help. Marek walked me through mine. Mine was the reverse of yours. After I got it winding properly, on the 10th shot, the shutter started sticking. So I had to then go in and clean the shutter.
Knock on wood, both the shutter and winding still seem to working as they should. |
Rimes
Tinkerer
Username: Rimes
Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2013
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 07, 2013 - 10:27 am: |
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New member...interesting site ...I had given up on trying to resolve my film counter issue on a Yaschia LM ...the counter is the top right side, above the focus knob...My problem starts from not knowing what correct operation looks like as I bought the camera used from a retail store and only discovered problem during first use ...the problem being the window offers no indication of the frame number...the counter seems stuck in the position that display a small red circle with a dot in the centre. I have opened back and tried to manually turn the tooth wheel to see if the indicator / display moves ...the best I get is a number 12 and then back to the red circle and dot. This site was interesting as it mentioned about proper loading of the film [note I have downloaded manual and looked at, however, it was not helpful]
Question I initially struggling with ...do I have [1] a mechanical problem or [2] confused / unskilled operator?
Any thoughts would be appreciated. |
Mareklew
Tinkerer
Username: Mareklew
Post Number: 278
Registered: 03-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 07, 2013 - 10:38 am: |
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Mechanical problem of two discs (that the number-wheel consists of) being stuck together (possibly glued by old lubricant as they offer a large contact area).
Check that assembly.
Marek |
Rimes
Tinkerer
Username: Rimes
Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2013
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - 06:57 am: |
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Mareklew, many thanks for a quick response and sharing your expertise...
...given the task to resolve the problem, the mechanical know-how to get to the mechanism may be beyound my skill [probably patience] -albeit I do fix things, but not cameras.
Question...is this a problem best done by a repair shop? Or, given the depth of expertise on this site, is there a breakdown assembly / reference illustration to guide me? Also, if I do attempt repair...is there a special lubricant for this?
Again, many thanks. |
Denny
Tinkerer
Username: Denny
Post Number: 121
Registered: 08-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - 08:00 pm: |
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If you look at my posting of June 9, there is a link to exploded views of a 124G. The counter disc is shown on No 5. The 124G will actually count up to 24, but the assembly is very similar.
Yours would look like Donyet's photo above.
Getting to this can be a challenge. Loosening the leatherette covering on my EM went quite well. Donyet's photo makes me think the covering on the LM is the older brittle style that may not be re-usable after removing it.
If you do attempt a repair, I would recommend cleaning the counter discs in place first to see if they free up. A couple of spritzes of CRC's QD Electronic Cleaner should loosen the disc quite quickly.
For testing my EM, I wrap about 3 turns of masking tape around an empty 120 spool to give the geared axle something to bite into. It simulates the paper film backing and saves the fingers.
In a working camera, when the back is opened, the counter wheel springs back to the Zero and then will count up as winding occurs.
Good luck and hope this helps some!
Oops - Do you have a Yashica LM or a YashicaMAT LM. I was describing the YashicaMAT and the non-MAT may be totally different. |
Denny
Tinkerer
Username: Denny
Post Number: 122
Registered: 08-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - 08:23 pm: |
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If it is a Yashica LM (non-MAT), is yours the early version with a counter reset button or a newer one, with out the counter reset button? |
Rimes
Tinkerer
Username: Rimes
Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2013
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - 08:01 am: |
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Wow...you know your camera(s)..
I have attached some images as a discussion aid
First, I have what I believe is a Yashica LM ...that is tne only ID on the cover over the light meter flap in front of camera.[photo 2]
Second, I do not think I have a reset button ...[photo 1]
Third, the maximum count is '12' ...I can see this number when I turn the gear wheel at end of shaft clockwise...the indiciator goes from a red circle with dot, do a '12', but then stops
Good tip re masking tape to simulate film ...I will have to find an empty spool [this is why I should not give to pressure to get rid of 'unnecessary' things]
A couple of questions...
1/ Any probability of success in spraying WD40 at gear [photo 5] in attempt to make things loose or would I do serious damage to future useability?
2/ Any work-around(s), like count number of turns to advance film?
Given the reality a fix may require major work, and it is not a prime camera for me, I do not think I am prepared to 'rip' off the cover -my alternate plan is to use the camera as a prop in some Retro shoots, and keep as part of personal 'museum'.
Again, thanks for the advise, input, and effort...much appreciated.
PS...I will upload photos via separate attachment as upload allows only one per post |
Rimes
Tinkerer
Username: Rimes
Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2013
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - 08:02 am: |
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Rimes Image 2 |
Rimes
Tinkerer
Username: Rimes
Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2013
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - 08:04 am: |
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Rimes Image 3 |
Rimes
Tinkerer
Username: Rimes
Post Number: 6
Registered: 01-2013
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - 08:05 am: |
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Rimes 4 |
Rimes
Tinkerer
Username: Rimes
Post Number: 7
Registered: 01-2013
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - 08:06 am: |
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Rimes 5 |
Dirbel
Tinkerer
Username: Dirbel
Post Number: 87
Registered: 04-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - 10:54 am: |
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Before you try to disassemble the camera, you should check the film transport with an empty spool as described by Denny.
The whole arrangement looks similar to the Yashica LM44 (or the Rolleicord II). If this is the case, the reset button is in the center of the wind knob. The small button between wind knob and focussing knob resets the frame counter.
You can find a manual for the LM 44 at http://butkus.org/chinon/index.html.
Spraying WD44 into the camera is not a good idea - you have no control where the the oil ends up.
Cheers,
Dirk |
Msiegel
Tinkerer
Username: Msiegel
Post Number: 320
Registered: 03-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - 10:56 am: |
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Rimes,
Film counter up to 12 is normal. The camera was introduced in the late 1950ies while 220 film was introduced in th mid 60ies. 12 shots is what you get out of a roll of 120 film.
WD 40 and cameras should always be kept as from each other as possible. WD 40 is creeping and finding places in your camera you beliebed anything can go there. It will certainly find your shutter blades to sit there comfortably.
Unfortunately I cannot tell how many turns you need for advancing a full frame.
Best regards
Martin |
Denny
Tinkerer
Username: Denny
Post Number: 123
Registered: 08-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - 11:37 am: |
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Your's has the film counter reset button. It is the little button right behind the focus knob. Check the last post on this linked page.
http://photo.net/medium-format-photography-forum/00KaS5
Let us know if this got you going. |
Denny
Tinkerer
Username: Denny
Post Number: 124
Registered: 08-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - 08:49 pm: |
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The Yashica LM is basically a Yashica C with the added selenium cell light meter attached. Here is a link to the manual for a C that also will show the reset button and how to load and unload the film. It won't explain how to use the built in light meter, which is probably suspect after 50+ years anyway.
http://www.cameramanuals.org/yashica_pdf/yashica_c.pdf |
Rimes
Tinkerer
Username: Rimes
Post Number: 8
Registered: 01-2013
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 08:25 am: |
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Got it...thanks to all who responded to my query...Wow! Awesome. Many thanks. Here's how your comments / feedback helped 'fix' the problem ...it's not the camera..it's the operator and your feedback was key.
1. First I was not aware of any reset button, until mentioned on the forum.
2. An earlier download of a manual by me did not have the detail presented in Denny's link.
3. A picture in the manual showed the two buttons mentioned as the reset. However, the comment the reset was the one behind the focus knob had me for a moment, albeit, I knew the centre button on the film wind knob,pushed it, the former did not seem to move when I tried to it push in...at first I assumed it was stuck
...then I noted the button behind the focus, slides a bit to one side ...it's not a push in. When AT THE SAME TIME I pushed in the know on the rewind and slide the button behind the focus wheel...I heard a clunk and the mechanism reset. After the reset, turning the rewind scrolled through the numbers in the window.
Thanks a lot...
...new problem now, I'm lost in the digital world so I will have to go get some film and play with my new / old camera. Thanks again. |
Rimes
Tinkerer
Username: Rimes
Post Number: 9
Registered: 01-2013
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 08:42 am: |
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Addition fyi...
In playing with the camera...I thought the following may be of interest regarding the operation / use.
First/Reset Counter Mechanism:
The COUNTER MECHANISM has to be reset, at the end of exposing a [12 image] roll, or starting a new roll -this reset operation requires you to PUSH IN the button in the centre of the rewind knob while AT THE SAME TIME, PUSH TO THE SIDE, the small 'button' beside the focus knob.
Second / Film Advance Action
After the shutter is released, the film advance knob will not turn [is locked]until you press in the center button to release it to advance to the next frame. Then you set shutter, trigger exposure and to advance again, press the center button when it locks. At the end of the roll, you will need to perform the operation described above to reset the complete Counter Mechanism.
Hope this makes sense.
Thanks again. |
Denny
Tinkerer
Username: Denny
Post Number: 125
Registered: 08-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 10:35 am: |
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Glad you got it, but to make sure - you reset the film counter AFTER loading new film and winding it to where the arrows on the film paper backing line up with the marks. Then you close and lock the back. THEN you reset the counter which should go to "S". Then wind until the 1 shows up in the counter window. This takes more winding as you are pulling the paper around the spool and positioning the film over the exposure area. Winding from 1 to 2 will not take near as many turns of the winding knob.
As you will read on many posts about Yashica and YashicaMat TLR's - never ever use the self-timer with the flash lever set to "M". Leave the flash lever to "X". Many lock it into "X" by adding a screw to prevent the lever from moving.
I suggest just not using, or letting anyone use the self-timer.
You will find the best results if you stop the lens down to at least F8. The Yashikor is a good triplet lens, but can get a little soft wide open (but so do most lenses).
Sounds like you are about ready to get a film tank and some chemicals and develop your own black and white. The 2 1/4 by 2 1/4 negative scans quite nicely.
But - be careful or you can end up with a whole new "addiction".
Enjoy!! |
Rimes
Tinkerer
Username: Rimes
Post Number: 10
Registered: 01-2013
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 04:47 pm: |
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Thanks for the additional heads up Denny -doing the reset AFTER loading the film, and other operational tips.
Many thanks again. When it's working you have to marvel at the mechanical engineering design of the camera. |
