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Silversurfer
Tinkerer
Username: Silversurfer
Post Number: 45
Registered: 08-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 11:53 am: | 
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Hi folks, I think I goofed up on my jammed shutter problem. (Earlier post). Following Chris's tips I reset (raised) the screw on the shutter plunger and it works splendidly now.
Unfortunately... before I discovered this was the problem I thought it might be locking up in the base of the camera. So I removed the winder lever and the base screws. I mistakenly removed the two inner ones, adjacent to the tripod bush, but the plate they secured seemed solid and I realised they probably did not need to come off, so retightened them.
I wonder if they have any bearing on the lens body (yes I have set it to inf.) not retracting (feels like it is hitting something at about 2/3 way in)
Have those screws let something go adrift in the base? Help please! Ted |
Silversurfer
Tinkerer
Username: Silversurfer
Post Number: 46
Registered: 08-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 12:35 pm: |
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Hi, oh, I did remove the door whilst the top/bottom plates were off to get better access to the lens body.but it seemed to go back without any fouling, but must admit I didn't try it fully closed, seemed a simple slide dovetail in lens body. is this relevant? ted |
Chris_sherlock
Tinkerer
Username: Chris_sherlock
Post Number: 71
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 12:46 pm: |
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G'day Ted,
Did you happen to lift out the shutter release shaft during your exploratory operation? If so, it is possible that the a fine coil spring has fallen into the camera between the bellows and the sliding lens standard. Either that or the arm that trips the shutter.
Regards, Chris |
Silversurfer
Tinkerer
Username: Silversurfer
Post Number: 47
Registered: 08-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 02:35 pm: |
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Hi Chris, no never removed the shaft, I could see the little spring around it, made sure it entered into hole properly. Shutter push arm? works nicely, It's a mystery, the lens body makes a definite clunk if I gently push it in, just gets 2/3rds in and stops solid. Perhaps the lid peg arms are catching inside?
I fear if something in base/back came lose when I removed one of the centre plate screws? As normal, I only remove 1 screw in cases where I am not sure, to see if anything goes slack. I just have no idea what's in the back of the camera that might block to travel of the lens body, nothing to see inside the bellows.
I was hoping to do as little dismantling as possible on this cam as it is very nice condition...and the last retina I did died on the bench...that will teach me to not to play with a retina reflex!
Any advice welcome.thanks Ted |
Chris_sherlock
Tinkerer
Username: Chris_sherlock
Post Number: 72
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 06:17 pm: |
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OK Ted, I'm running out of easy answers now. Did you perhaps remove the gear cover at the 10 o'clock position on the front the shutter? Regards, Chris |
Silversurfer
Tinkerer
Username: Silversurfer
Post Number: 48
Registered: 08-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 - 01:34 am: |
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Hi Chris, I think I have found the problem, but...it's maybe bad news!The two screws in the base 1" either side of the tripod bush..I removed one thinking it was part of the base plate holding screws (about 6 of them).I think this has let go maybe a tiny guide? block inside? I can't see any other purpose for those two screws? I have just removed the one I did originaly and I can just see through the tiny hole the innner part of the lens moving.
I can hear something tinkle about when I shake the camera and it definitly clunks against something. I fear I must remove the whole front lens asembly to get it back? Big problem???thanks for any survival tips! Ted |
Chris_sherlock
Tinkerer
Username: Chris_sherlock
Post Number: 73
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 - 01:46 am: |
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OK, thanks for that Ted.
I was misdirected by your mention of a tripod screw with screws either side. That hole in the middle of the base plate is in fact where an alignment pin on a camera platform fits. The actual threaded tripod mount is at one end of the base plate where the back-catch is.
So, by loosening those two screws you have allowed either one or both bushes to become misplaced. If the screws tightened up, then the bush in question is still 'sort of' in place, just lifted up a millimetre or so and rotated, so it will not pull down into place clear of the sliding mechanism.
The solution is to remove the lens/shutter assembly, remove the focus helical assembly, and get the problem bush back into correct position.
Regards, Chris |
Silversurfer
Tinkerer
Username: Silversurfer
Post Number: 49
Registered: 08-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 - 02:25 am: |
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Thanks Chris, got the door off again and as you say undoing the one screw has let the bush go walkabout inside! I have got the whole lens block slid forward but it has now stopped...won't go in or out...i fear I am going to kill another Retina!
perhaps personel email's between us would spare the forum readers the gory details and my embarasment removing the wrong screws! Ted |
Br1078lum
Tinkerer
Username: Br1078lum
Post Number: 529
Registered: 11-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 - 08:13 pm: |
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Oh no, this is great. Please continue. How else will we learn about the things not to do. But don't feel bad, we've all done something like this before. I've done it two or three times on cameras I couldn't get any info on, and just dove right in.
PF |
Chris_sherlock
Tinkerer
Username: Chris_sherlock
Post Number: 74
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 - 11:14 pm: |
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Yes, you are right about making minor mistakes, like removing the occasional wrong screw, or starting at the wrong end of a lens. I've done this any number of times when facing an unfamiliar camera or lens. What seems to be the obvious thing to do based on previous experience sometimes creates a lot more work than was strictly needed.
Not much you can do except be cautious when facing the unfamiliar, take lots of pictures before each step, and don't dismantle anything you aren't confident about reassembling. If in doubt, ask first. Regards, Chris |
Hollenbj
Tinkerer
Username: Hollenbj
Post Number: 111
Registered: 03-2012
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 12:32 am: |
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Wow, I couldn't have said it better than Chris.
I just hate it when I go into a lens from the "wrong" end. Happens often though. Need to get used to that kind of thing. In fact, my repair adventures have taught me to embrace frustration as a normal result of tinkering. Of course, what I really mean is I learn to manage frustration -- even harness it.
I certainly agree that a decent digital camera with close focus (macro?) ability is a very worthwhile (critical?!) investment. And use it! Take frequent photos of your progress from different angles, etc. I also found I need to bring in extra lighting for my photos (and it ends up sticking around because my eyes are old and weary). Can't have too much illumination.
Retinas are lovely little cameras. The pride you'll have after repairing that little gem will keep you slipping it into your pocket whenever you go out. That's what its all about No? |
Silversurfer
Tinkerer
Username: Silversurfer
Post Number: 50
Registered: 08-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 02:11 pm: |
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What can I say? I have spent a fair portion of my working life tearing engines etc down, fixing weird cars (and they don't get weirder than a Panhard!) But in retirement I was beginning to doubt my capabilities when I do a real stupid thing like unscrewing something that had no linkage with my objective.
But in mitigation, the bottom plate on the Retina was covered in a black crud of adhesive; I scraped around to locate the half doz.or so screws and started to unscrew them. When one of the centre ones gave a tiny tinkle sound.... a little alarm bell rang in my head, but I pressed on. The remainder of the outer screws released the base plate, the centre screws were not holding it down so I retightened them,( one seemed not to tighten?) However, on completion of the original shutter sticking repair, the door would now not close!
Chris Sherlock came to my rescue...with the very bad news, (I now know....NEVER remove the two screws either side of the centre black tripod guide bush). My unscrewing had dropped the lens block support bush/es into the guts of the camera, being trapped in the confined space, hence the inability to shut the door.
The fix was less appealing; ....... just tear the whole lens/shutter/focus helix/bellows out to replace the bushes. OH and an unobtainable rear lock ring tool were needed. I spent a couple of hours trying (unsuccessfully) to make this tool before giving up.
Only my sideways thinking/Panhard experiences saved the day. I didn't tear the’ front face’ out of the camera, BUT is now back in action, apparently none the worse for my interference....what I would call 'a workmanlike repair'
Chris and Holenbj are absolutely right...THINK before you unscrew, scrape away any crud to see what is there...... AND get plenty of light on the job!
( To say how I did it may upset some purists, so I leave it to your imagination...unless you send me a private email!)
I have a jammed clockwork Leningrad lurking in my ‘interesting’ box...a Soviet time bomb if ever there was, but I am waiting for someone else to advise on this one before poking with my little screwdrivers!
Did you enjoy this BR1078lum! |
Br1078lum
Tinkerer
Username: Br1078lum
Post Number: 531
Registered: 11-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2013 - 07:56 pm: |
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All except for the non-ending. You can PM me the fix.
PF |
Fallisphoto
Tinkerer
Username: Fallisphoto
Post Number: 319
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 08:05 am: |
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have you ever looked at a camera repairman's parts bins and wondered where the parts came from? Now you know. Everyone screws up from time to time. |
Chris_sherlock
Tinkerer
Username: Chris_sherlock
Post Number: 75
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 06:53 pm: |
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Oh, I think that is a bit harsh. In the main, parts bins get filled up not so much from screw-ups, as from the useful leftovers after having to buy a parts camera in order to get the pieces required to repair another one for a customer, or for yourself come to that. Regards, Chris |
Br1078lum
Tinkerer
Username: Br1078lum
Post Number: 533
Registered: 11-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 07:22 pm: |
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Thanks for the info, Ted.
PF |
