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Mr_flibble
Tinkerer
Username: Mr_flibble
Post Number: 97
Registered: 10-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2013 - 06:18 am: | 
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Recently acquired a Kiev 88 (pre-CM) with a Vega-12 lens, two film holders and a few extension tubes. All in a nice large hard-leather shoulder case. Very nice set for a nice price.
One of the film magazines required a little fixing as someone had tried to yank it open or ram it closed without unlocking the mechanism first. This left a 2mm gap between the case and the lid of the magazine and it wouldn't lock shut. Took me about 10 minutes with a screwdriver, a mallet and some needle-nose pliers to fix it.
But the biggest 'problem' at the moment is with the camera's shutter. It works fine on all speeds, except on 1/15th and 1/8th of a second.
At these two speeds the curtains travel in an inconsistent way with the opening curtain hanging at about 2/3rd of its travel, until the closing curtain catches up and then they both travel with a narrow gap to the end.
Sometimes the curtains seem to be capping too; traveling with no gap between them.
Weird thing is, these speeds do work fine when I hold the camera sideways.
Anyone got an idea what might be wrong? Is it easily fixable?
Supposedly the camera had a clean bill of health from a check-up a few weeks before coming my way.
Still pretty happy with it though. I shot two rolls with it so far with some great results.
Any advice appreciated,
Rick |
Br1078lum
Tinkerer
Username: Br1078lum
Post Number: 559
Registered: 11-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2013 - 08:54 pm: |
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Don't use 1/15 or 1/8.
But seriously, Rick, it could be something interfering with the curtains that gets out of the way when you turn the camera 90 degrees. I'm not familiar with the innards of the 88, and it's very odd that it only affects those two speeds, but it must be something in the slow speed controller that has become loose. Something stuck in the curtain guides would mess up all the speeds.
PF |
Mr_flibble
Tinkerer
Username: Mr_flibble
Post Number: 98
Registered: 10-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2013 - 12:19 am: |
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Hehehe, it's not like I'd need those speeds very often. I don't like to carry around tripods all the time. Anything under 1/60th will be avoided ;)
I found the Kiev/Salyut repair PDF online. So, I'll be studying that for a bit. |
Jdvores
Tinkerer
Username: Jdvores
Post Number: 3
Registered: 04-2013
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, June 01, 2013 - 09:50 pm: |
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Hey Rick,
My Kiev 88 slow speeds somehow caught on the light baffles [the protective cover on the sides and bottom of the inside body] and wouldn't open the shutter. The curtains traveled, but didn't open at all. I took off this baffle and now they work. Maybe something similar is happening with yours.
It's otherwise a great camera. I upgraded to a 88CM though. Way more reliable. [Did yours come with the TTL prism?]
You can study that PDF, take off the light baffles and see what's happening. Try and describe what your slow speed mechanism is doing and maybe I can compare it to mine?
I wouldn't suggest taking the camera apart further than the light baffles - I took one apart all the way and it's wayy more complicated than your average 35mm SLR. It's never going back together. |
Mr_flibble
Tinkerer
Username: Mr_flibble
Post Number: 99
Registered: 10-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 01:26 pm: |
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Having looked over the PDF file I'm indeed baffled by it all. I'm perfectly comfortable taking Compur shutters apart, but this is a way more complex. ;)
1/500th: curtains cap, no gap between the curtains when traveling. usually only after the first shot after setting the camera at this speed.
1/15th: curtains Cap, no gap between the curtains when traveling.
If I advance the winding knob, then change the speed from 1/15th to something else and then back to 1/15th it generally does work as it should.
1/4th: either caps completely or travels 2/3rd capped, then it will hang for a moment before traveling the final 1/3rd with a gap.
All other speeds perform fine.
I bought the camera as part of a complete set last month for a 100 Euro. It included an early TTL-prism (It needs 4LR44s I believe, and an adapter). |
Jdvores
Tinkerer
Username: Jdvores
Post Number: 6
Registered: 04-2013
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 02:37 pm: |
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You're looking at this PDF [http://www.kievaholic.com/Kiev88_repair_manual.pdf], correct?
I've been fiddling with my faulty 88 here for the past hour and see that I have the exact same problem, save for the 1/4th speed. Fires properly upside down, but right-side up - no gap.
The section about the faults might be what's wrong, as far as I can tell with mine. I suspect you might have to disassemble it to fix it though. I used a screwdriver to push up the vertical bar with the spring in the middle and after that, the speeds that don't work fire properly.
See if yours fires after pushing that vertical bar up. |
Br1078lum
Tinkerer
Username: Br1078lum
Post Number: 560
Registered: 11-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, June 02, 2013 - 07:39 pm: |
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Starting to sound like a common malady.
PF |
Mr_flibble
Tinkerer
Username: Mr_flibble
Post Number: 100
Registered: 10-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 03, 2013 - 12:57 am: |
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Yes, that's the PDF I've been looking at.
I've removed the 3 light baffles, but the problem persists. So I'll have to look into a bit further. |
Jdvores
Tinkerer
Username: Jdvores
Post Number: 7
Registered: 04-2013
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 03, 2013 - 12:47 pm: |
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Okay, so on the left side [when the lens mount is facing you], there's a vertical black bar with a spring around it in the middle. On my camera, pushing that up slightly and firing the shutter makes the curtains open properly for the speeds that didn't work before.
That PDF says that a lever needs to be bent inside the camera to make it catch that bar properly.
Does moving that bar up work for you? You can move it with your finger. |
Jdvores
Tinkerer
Username: Jdvores
Post Number: 8
Registered: 04-2013
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 03, 2013 - 01:06 pm: |
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Here's a photo of what I mean. I haven't tried bending the lever or fixing anything yet.
 |
Mr_flibble
Tinkerer
Username: Mr_flibble
Post Number: 101
Registered: 10-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 03, 2013 - 02:17 pm: |
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I've had some time to study the mechanism a little more this evening.
I found a lot of excess oil on all the gears and axles in there. I've dabbed up a lot off it already.
That seems to have cleared up the 1/500th capping problem.
And pushing up on the slider with the spring over the rod indicated in your photo does indeed seem to fix the slow speeds.
I can see the lever behind it, but I don't see how I could bend it without disassembling the camera.
Would bending the foot of the L-shaped part (over the stacked gears) slightly upward not achieve the same extra play when the lever is triggered? |
Jdvores
Tinkerer
Username: Jdvores
Post Number: 9
Registered: 04-2013
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 03, 2013 - 05:54 pm: |
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It might. But since it does catch on almost all the other speeds, I suspect that something with the stacked gears might be wrong.
I took off that spring on the left in my photo, and what that did was that the rotating part with the lever behind the rod didn't instantaneously pull up the mirror and push that rod up. I had to manually rotate it. Like that, the curtains operated without problems.
Is it just me, or might that spring be adversely affecting the lever?
** I put some lubricant on the rod, and the curtains worked properly about 3 out of the next 15 times I tried it. Better, but I don't think that's the solution. |
Jdvores
Tinkerer
Username: Jdvores
Post Number: 10
Registered: 04-2013
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 03, 2013 - 06:08 pm: |
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Hey!!!
I bent that L lever DOWN a bit with a screwdriver, and it appears to work! This isn't the final word on the issue but... Exciting. I shouldn't have taken apart my other 88 so rashly... |
Mr_flibble
Tinkerer
Username: Mr_flibble
Post Number: 102
Registered: 10-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 03, 2013 - 11:56 pm: |
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Cool, looks like we're figuring this out ;)
Which part of the L-shaped lever did you bend downwards exactly? The end that goes into the stacked gears? Or at the angle of the L (making it more V-shaped)?
I confess my problems with the Dopple-Acht started when the bag it was in toppled over and it hit the ground. The shock probably bent or threw something out of alignment. |
Jdvores
Tinkerer
Username: Jdvores
Post Number: 11
Registered: 04-2013
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 04, 2013 - 06:56 pm: |
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I pushed the angle down. I can't say I made an effort to bend it, but it seems to have done the trick. |
Mr_flibble
Tinkerer
Username: Mr_flibble
Post Number: 103
Registered: 10-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2013 - 10:00 am: |
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Did the same thing yesterday, that fixed capping problem on 1/15th.
But then, the closing curtain wouldn't follow the opening curtain on the other slow speeds. 1/8th, 1/4th and 1/2nd would stick open.
I was gutted!
So following the steps of the exposure cycle I quickly discovered that the air brake wasn't spinning down fully and could be aided by some vigorous prodding it with the screwdriver allowing to second curtain to close.
Okay I though, perhaps I had been too thorough with cleaning up the excess oil.
A few tiny pin-pricks of gun oil on the the axles of the slow-speed mechanism did improve the operation, but still the 1/2sec wasn't cooperating fully.
Then I noticed that the little D-frame over the air brake was bent downward somewhat. Probably happened when I removed the light baffles.
Bending it slightly back to the horizontal the axle driving the blades of the air brake freed up straight away and gear ran down normally.
SWEET!!!!
Then I went on to fight the camera for another 20 minutes trying to reinstall the light baffles (A curse on that one lock screw that holds the bottom cover in position!).
It's all back together now though. And it's purring like a kitten again (well, it's the sound of the air brake whirring up and down)
Case closed 
Time to load up some Ektar 100 and shoot the heck out of this thing! Well, it'll have to wait until I'm done testing the Plaubel Makina I've recently acquired.
Thanks for all the advice Jdvores and suggestions PF ;) |
Jdvores
Tinkerer
Username: Jdvores
Post Number: 12
Registered: 04-2013
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2013 - 01:47 pm: |
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Awesome. Great to hear. Good luck, happy shooting. |
Br1078lum
Tinkerer
Username: Br1078lum
Post Number: 562
Registered: 11-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2013 - 06:12 pm: |
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Glad it's all good now, Rick. And that Makina of yours is a great looking camera (saw it on RFf).
PF |
