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Cooltouch
Tinkerer
Username: Cooltouch
Post Number: 40
Registered: 01-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 10:14 pm: | 
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I just acquired a Canon IID1 rangefinder with lens. A very clean camera with accurate shutter speeds and a decent quality Serenar 50/1.8, so I was really looking forward to using it. Ran a test roll of film through it today, and found that it has a few pinholes in one or both shutter curtains.
Given how these old rubberized shutter curtains get hard and brittle over the years, I should probably replace them, but if I can get by in the near term with a repair, that will be fine for now.
I would like to know if there is a source on the net for repair information for these cameras. Perhaps a .pdf of a factory repair manual that would include the IID1? I don't image it's all that different from many of the others. It is very similar to the much more common IVsb/s2. |
Gez
Tinkerer
Username: Gez
Post Number: 157
Registered: 09-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - 02:08 pm: |
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If its any help the Canon 11-S is covered in Tomosy's 'Restoring the Great Collectable Cameras', provides some info on replacing the curtains. |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 721
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 19, 2009 - 03:55 pm: |
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If you search the archives, you will find details on using black fabric paint to fill the pin holes. This works very well on curtains that are still fairly supple - just exhibiting the odd few holes. Only you will be able to judge if this will work short term; however, one of my 'short term' repairs is still functioning after nearly three years of hard use. |
Rick_oleson
Tinkerer
Username: Rick_oleson
Post Number: 1011
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 19, 2009 - 06:59 pm: |
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My most recent memorable repair was replacing a curtain in a Leica IIIF, and it is not a particularly fond memory. The Canon may be a bit easier, but I don't enjoy these tight spaces. I would probably try to persuade the old curtains to hang on as long as possible as long as they're not horrible and you're not planning to sell the camera this way.
Pinholes are not, of course, actually pinholes - they are cracks in that brittle rubber, and more are waiting to appear as the crack enlarges and more light peeks through the weave of the fabric.
I have had good success with "Liquid Electrical Tape", which can be bought in hardware stores at a price that is higher than it probably ought to be but a lot cheaper than a curtain replacement. I brush this onto the fabric side (not the rubber side) of the curtain, immediately opposite the cracks in the rubber. The liquid soaks into the fabric which gives it good adhesion as well as flexibility, and it's an effective backup for the rubber layer.
You don't have to coat the ENTIRE curtain - get the part that's in the film opening. Light leaks in through the holes while the shutter curtain is not moving and there's a lot of time for it to hit the same spot on the film through that little hole... when it's traveling the holes are too small to affect the exposure so if a couple pass by from the edge it shouldn't be a big deal. The curtain moves slower when you're winding it, of course, but even there it takes a pretty good sized hole to make a mark on the film through a moving curtain.
I've also tried some of the same stuff in a spray can and it seems to have done a good job on my Pentacon Six, and less ugly than the brush-on job... but that would probably be pretty hard to handle in the small spaces in an LTM body. |
Cooltouch
Tinkerer
Username: Cooltouch
Post Number: 41
Registered: 01-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 20, 2009 - 12:59 am: |
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Thanks, guys. Rick, I was at a big box store yesterday, looking for some liquid electrical tape, and found it, but they had it in white and green only. If I go that route, I want black.
So while I was there, I got to thinking. And I picked up a fresh bottle of contact cement. I can use this for re-attaching leatherettes anyway, so even if it doesn't work right, it'll still get used. But my idea was to mix a bit of black paint with the contact cement, and a thinner. Perhaps acetone or denatured alcohol or naphtha. Maybe MEK? I don't have any of that handy, but I have the other three.
I also have some oil-based black leather dye that might work better than paint.
Does this seem a plausible substitute for the liquid tape? I'm somewhat concerned about the thinner I use dissolving the rubber in the curtains.
What do you use to apply it with? I'm thinking a soft-bristled artist's paint brush. |
Rlc
Tinkerer
Username: Rlc
Post Number: 91
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 20, 2009 - 06:56 am: |
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Michael;
I have used black "Performix Plasti Dip" with excellent results. Do not thin this product as it becomes translucent when diluted. Use sparingly at full strength.
Fallow Rick's instructions when applying.
Plasti Dip is available at Ace Hardware or Lowes in the USA.It is a product of Plasti Dip International in Blain MN. in USA. Phone 1 800 969 5432 dial extension 135 for general info.
Hope this helps.
Richard Creviston. |
Rick_oleson
Tinkerer
Username: Rick_oleson
Post Number: 1012
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 20, 2009 - 02:01 pm: |
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Definitely needs to be black, yes. People do mix their own just as you describe, but you have to be concerned about opacity, flexibility and tackiness in the end result. The prepared stuff is nice and opaque, stays flexible and is not tacky after it dries like contact cement can be. Plasti-Dip is the same stuff, it's a vinyl plastisol. |
Scott
Tinkerer
Username: Scott
Post Number: 63
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 20, 2009 - 03:08 pm: |
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I have a Feb 3b, and about a quarter of the area of the curtain I can see when the shutter is cocked has light leaking through the fiber because the coating has worn off. Some folks recommended black fabric paint, which I found at the crafts shop, but haven't applied yet.
I've about decided to go ahead and try to completely replace the curtains anyway, but one thing I still want to ask you guys who have "re-coated" shutter curtains is: Are you painting only the section of the curtain that is visible with the shutter cocked (or released)? Or have you found a way to paint a larger area (like a bit above and a bit below where the light actually hits the curtain? How do you do it without getting the curtain stuck to the shutter body with paint? |
Rick_oleson
Tinkerer
Username: Rick_oleson
Post Number: 1013
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 20, 2009 - 07:47 pm: |
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I only do the visible area in the vertical direction - if you can sneak a little past the edge of the casting that's good. You can wind the shutter a few millimeters to reach a little farther horizontally. If I'm going to have to disassemble the thing to reach the whole curtain it's better to go ahead and replace it at that point. The curtain isn't generally in contact with the chassis casting so it won't stick there - but don't wind it until you're sure it's completely dry and non-tacky or you'll have no shutter at all. |
John_shriver
Tinkerer
Username: John_shriver
Post Number: 48
Registered: 12-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 23, 2009 - 07:37 pm: |
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It's harder to do than on a Leica IIIf. The reason is that it was designed to be assembled with precision jigs. There's no fine tuning of the second curtain release catch at 1/500 and 1/1000 like there is on the Leica IIIc and newer cameras.
The National Camera repair manual for the IIIf really has all the information you need.
I've done curtains on a Canon IIF and IV-SB2, and really need to do them again to get the high speeds decently accurate. I think the solution is to use Scotch Magic tape to find the right position for the closing curtain on the drum, and only when the speeds are right secure it to the drum with shellac.
The other issue is that the Canon is fussier about properly thin curtain material than the Leica is. |
Cooltouch
Tinkerer
Username: Cooltouch
Post Number: 49
Registered: 01-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 03:29 pm: |
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Well, I finally scored some Plasti-Dip at a local Lowes. Home Depot had the Liquid Electrical Tape, but not in black. Lowes had it in both the dip can and the spray can. I decided to get the spray can because I'm thinking it will be thinner than the stuff in a can, which I'm thinking may be rather goopy.
So my plan is to spray a quantity of the Plasti-Dip into a disposable container (preferably paper), and to use an artist's paint brush to apply it. Does this sound like a reasonable course of action for you guys? |
Prasanna
Tinkerer
Username: Prasanna
Post Number: 38
Registered: 10-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 06:57 pm: |
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I have used Black Nail Polish to restore curtains with pinholes and bigger cracks in Fed and Praktica. Nail polish is flexible and thin. One can apply several coats successively after each layer dries. I fire the shutter a few times after each coat dries, before applying the next coat. I apply from both sides of the curtain. Nail Polish is available in any neighborhood store. Regards, sp. |
