| Author |
Message |
    
Dan Del Pezzo
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 01:17 pm: | 
|
I have a Minolta X370 that is producing pictures with a strong shadow on the right half of the picture. Not every picture, but more than 75%. I have fired the shutter with the back open and the curtain opens completely, and there is nothing loose. I am using a Minolta 50mm f1.7, Kalimar 28mm f2.8 and a Vivitar 135mm f2.8. The lenses are in good working order and it doesn't matter which lens is on the camera. I don't want to take it in for repair since it's cheaper to replace it than repair it. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks!! |
Henry
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 01:56 pm: |
|
You been using a flash? If so, be certain not to set the shutter speed faster than the sync speed. This sounds like what is happening.
Henry |
Dan Del Pezzo
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 03:05 pm: |
|
There's no flash involved. They have all been taken outside. If there's a light leak wouldn't the negatives be clear or white instead of a black shadow? If it matters the shadow does not have a smooth edge. Thanks Again |
Jan Dvorak
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 03:21 pm: |
|
Dan,
If the negatives have a black shadow, that would indicate a light leak. Don't forget - a negative is reversed - a transparent one is unexposed, dark one is exposed. Is the shadow by the door hinge? Is the light trap by the back door hinge deteriorated? That might be your answer.
To replace the seals do an eBay member search for user name interslice - Jon Goodman has a superb selection and first class customer service.
All the best,
Jan |
David Nebenzahl
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 04:47 pm: |
|
Wait a second--before concluding that this is due to a light leak, there's another possibility: that one of the curtains is dragging and overexposing part of the frame. A quick inspection of the negatives will reveal which it is.
If there's a light leak, the negative will be partially fogged--that is, there will be a dark streak or area on each frame. This fogging will most likely extend over the frame, possibly to the edge of the film.
If the problem is a dragging curtain, then the darkened (overexposed) area will be within the frame. You should be able to pretty easily determine which it is. |
Dan Del Pezzo
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 04:50 pm: |
|
The shadow is on the right side of the frame and that is where the hinge for the door is located. The foam doesn't look worn, but I never really noticed before. If I used a piece of gaffer's tape over the hinge would that be a temporary solution? One thing I do notice is the door hinge is next to where the film goes around the take up reel. Is that where the light may be affecting the negative?
Thanks for the information, I'll look him up on eBay. |
David Nebenzahl
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 05:04 pm: |
|
First of all, let's remove all the potential confusion. You say there's a "shadow" on the right side. Are you shooting negative film and making prints from it? And is there a dark area on the print, or a dark area on the film? (Remember, if you're shooting negatives, a dark spot on the film means a light spot on the print and vice versa.)
Also, look at the film and see if the "shadow" extends outside of (over) the edges of the frame, as I suggested above.
To answer your question, yes, if the back leaks light at or near the hinge, it could definitely cause fogging on the film. |
Dan Del Pezzo
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 05:06 pm: |
|
Looking at the negatives, I need to calrify something. The dark areas are on the prints. On the negative it is completely clear. That goes all the way to the sprocket holes on each frame that is affected. It's not clearly defined though. It covers different amounts of the frame. Some are two-thirds covered and some are only one-fourth fogged. It does not have a well defined edge.
Sorry for the confusion and thanks for the input everyone.
Dan |
Jan Dvorak
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 05:51 pm: |
|
Dan,
Than it is not a light leak, but most likely a shutter problem. Does the X370 have a cloth, horizontally running shutter, or is it a metal bladed vertically running one?
Jan |
Dan Del Pezzo
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 06:36 pm: |
|
There's a cloth shutter running horizontally. Do you think the shutter isn't opening fully? With the back open, when I release the shutter, the cloth fully opens every single time. As I mentioned it's not every frame but most of them.
I would really hate to see it be a big problem. I certainly like shooting with the manual camera than I do with my automatic one.
Thanks everyone
Dan |
M Currie
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 07:52 pm: |
|
I think it's most likely a shutter problem, either with the first curtain dragging when it opens, or the second dragging when it closes. Try looking through it again, lens off, at different shutter speeds. I have a similarly misbehaving Yashica, with a similar shutter (cloth curtain, moving horizontally, right to left as you look through the back). On this example the shutter opens all the way at flash sync speed and below, with no visible problem, but at higher speeds, when it is supposed to pass an evenly spaced slit across the film, it is clear that the first curtain is catching or dragging, and the second curtain overtakes it. Looking through the camera back, the light patch which should cover the whole film plane is cut off at the left. With a lens on, remember that the image is upside-down and backwards, so it is the right hand side of the printed image which will be under-exposed or black.
If the second curtain were dragging as it closed, you'd expect to see overexposure rather than underexposure.
The good news is that this is probably not too major a problem, probably not much more than a clean and lube, though you'll still have to weigh the labor cost against the value of the camera. The estimate I got for my Yashica was about 85 dollars, and I decided to let it go (and maybe tackle it myself some day when I'm brave). X-370's are pretty common and have had a very long model run, so it shouldn't be hard to find a replacement if you just want another, but it might also be cheaper to repair because they are so plentiful and parts so easily found. |
Dan Del Pezzo
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 09:04 pm: |
|
I ran through the shutter speeds but didn't see anything out of the ordinary. I guess for the time being I'll have to attribute it to its age and see about doing something about it when I can afford it.
I did notice something though. I downloaded the repair manual and while looking through it I noticed it shows the light blocking material going completely across the top and bottom of the door. On mine, it is only present along the side closest to the hinge and about an inch across the top and bottom and that's all there is. I know it probably doesn't sound like a light leak but could that have anything to do with it? I just don't see anything else obvious.
Thanks everyone, I appreciate the help.
Dan |
James Jones
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 11:16 am: |
|
Dan, do your pictures look something like this:
http://members.cox.net/minolta16/scan0022.jpg
http://members.cox.net/minolta16/scan0023.jpg
http://members.cox.net/minolta16/scan0024.jpg
These were taken with a Minolta X-700, and I thought it was a shutter problem, but it turned out to be oil on the aperture blades causing the aperture to be sluggish when stopping down.
James |
Dan Del Pezzo
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 11:55 am: |
|
James,
They look almost identical. The darker shadow is almost completely black. I'll try to post two examples -
|image{picture 1}
|image{picture 2}
The shadow is different on each picture but it is always coming from the right side of the finished picture and negative.
You're talking about the blades in the lenses, right? For now I'll probably go back to my other camera and see whether I want to replace it with another bosy or consider the move to digital at some point.
Thanks
Dan |
Dan Del Pezzo
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 11:58 am: |
|
Sorry, screwed that up. I think I know what I did wrong. Hit the shift key when I shouldn't have. I'll try one more time.
Thanks
 |
Ed
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 02:21 pm: |
|
Take the lens off from the camera and open the back. Set the shutter at 1/1000 and point at a fluorescent light. Trip the shutter and see what the shutter action is. If it correct, not likely, you will see an even pattern across the frame. If it is not even, or no exposure, drop down in the shutter speed setting and see if there a speed where it appears to be even. |
M Currie
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 04:02 pm: |
|
I notice that the pictures taken with the bad aperture blades appear to be overexposed on the left, which fits with the aperture being too wide open at the beginning of the exposure (remember that the printed image is reversed). Dan's pictures are almost exactly what my Yashica delivered, well exposed on the left and dark on the right. This is what you get if the first curtain drags and the second curtain meets it before the exposure is done.
As Ed says above (and I said earlier but perhaps not as clearly) you need to remove the lens and look through the back to see this effect clearly. |
rick
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 04:24 pm: |
|
Try this shutter check:
http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-135.html
Set your shutter at its fastest few speeds. This test will clearly show how your curtains are behaving: the white band you see should be of uniform thickness.... if it becomes narrower or wider at one end, one of the curtains is running at a different speed from the other. If this variation is in the form of a uniform taper, it's just a velocity error; but if, as it looks like may be your situation, it has a sort of stepped appearance with a contstant width, a taper, and then a different constant width, one curtain is encountering an obstruction in mid-travel.
Usually the obstruction is not actually at the curtain... it's more often in the mesh of the gears that are connected to the curtain shafts. A small piece of dirt or film chip in this area can have a very big effect.
: ) = |
Dan Del Pezzo
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 04:52 pm: |
|
After looking at the link provided by Rick it is finally starting to make a little more sense. At shutter speedy from bulb to 1/250 everything seems fine. At 1/500, 1/1000, and auto it looks like the curtain isn't opening properly. I can only get a partial glimpse of my computer screen. At 1/500 it may only be opening halfway and above that it may be opening a quarter of that. At the lower shutter speeds, I get a full, albeit quick, look at the screen through the lens opening. This fits with the way I have been shooting lately - leaving the speed set to auto and manually adjusting the aperture. I shoot mostly landscape so I have been trying for more depth of field not worrying about the speed. At least I have a better idea of what's going on. I'm wondering if I can go to a slower speed film for the moment and set everything manually. Are there any suggestions for a do-it-yourself repair or fix at home?
Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions. It's making more sense to me now.
Dan |
Dan Del Pezzo
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 04:56 pm: |
|
Whoops, just noticed at 1/250th the shutter is only opening 3/4 of the way. It's not doing it everytime at 1/250 but it's most times.
Thanks again!
Dan |
rick oleson
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 02, 2005 - 06:08 am: |
|
it's probably happening at all speeds.... the difference is that at 1/1000 and 1/500 the closing curtain is very close behind the opening one, so that the slightest hesitation will let it catch up. at slower speeds, the opening curtain could hesitate 2 or 3mm and have no visible effect because the second curtain is 18mm or farther behind it. i would inspect any gears that are meshed to the opening curtain for dirt, before doing anything else.
rick : ) = |
Steve
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 12:00 am: |
|
Not that you need more responses, but as a general observation, a sluggish aperture mechanism that stops down slowly instead of instantly would give you pictures that are overexposed on one side and properly exposed on the other, especially at smaller apertures. I have a Mamiya 1000 DTL with the standard 55 mm lens that did this until I flood-cleaned the aperture blades and mechanism with Ronsonol lighter fluid. Your issue is entirely opposite, and therefore shutter-related. I did a bit of searching on this issue last night, and found that this camera has a common probem with the shutter jumping off the track. I would recommend concentrating on your shutter mechanism. Good luck. |
