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Alex
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 31, 2004 - 04:06 pm: | 
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Yes, I know the rule is never to lubricate shutter blades, and I haven't. I acquired an old Zeiss Ikonta which had that common ailment, sticky slow shutter speeds on a Prontor-SV shutter. So I tipped in a small amount of lighter fuel, which normally does the trick, exercising the shutter a few dozen times, and it seemed to free up, with 1s sounding like 1 second, and so on. It seemed perfect. But after an hour or so, the shutter just stuck completely, and a few more drops of lighter fuel freed it up. Then the cycle repeats. I'm wondering if the lighter fuel is reaching the blades and acting as a lubricant, and when it dries out, the blades are causing the shutter to stick, rather than any gunge in the shutter assembly itself. I'm not sure.
I know there's a tip elsewhere on this forum that if it's absolutely necessary, shutter blades can be gently lubricated by a finger smeared lightly in fine graphite pencil, but I'm hesitant about this in case I'm on the wrong lines entirely.
I'd be grateful for any pointers. This little Ikonta 521 is otherwise a perfect little peach and I'm getting restless now about putting a roll of film through it. |
Peter Wallage
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 01, 2005 - 05:53 am: |
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Hi Alex,
What you're experiencing is very common. Most of us have come across it an one time or another. What has happened is that the original sticky slow speeds were caused by dirt/dried oil in the slow speed escapement train. When you used the lighter fuel you freed this, but the old oil on it has washed down and distributed itself on the shutter blades. When you add more lighter fuel you dilute this oil enough to break down its surface tension but it reforms as soon as the lighter fuel dries out. It's got to be washed out completely - adding graphite or anything else will only form a sticky paste.
You don't say how far you disassembled the shutter, but it's best if you take it off the camera (usually a screwed ring round the shutter housing inside the camera), remove both the front and rear lens elements and take off the speed control plate so that you can see all the mechanism.
Then there are two ways of getting it clean, the long way, which purists will tell you is the 'proper' way, and the short way which, for me, works about 90% of the time. Try the short way first.
Lay the shutter in a shallow plastic tray, something like a 'chinese take-away' box, keep flooding it with lighter fuel and working it while it's wet to try to wash all the old oil out. Keep doing this until the shutter works when it's dried out.
Lighter fuel in small cans is quite expensive but it's only refined naptha. If you can buy 'commercial grade' naptha it's cheap enough to cover the shutter with it and swirl thigs around. On really sticky shutters, as an alternative to naptha or lighter fuel, I have used an aerosol of carburettor/injector cleaner from my local auto store. It's a very powerful degreaser, two floodings are usually enough to get the shutter really clean, but be careful how you use it. ALWAYS use it in the open or in a ventilated outhouse because the fumes are nasty things to breathe. Second, don't use it if there are any plastic bits attached to the shutter because some of these injector cleaners will dissolve many plastics.
With regard to operating the shutter while it's still wet with cleaner, the shutter should work in 'B' mode with the speed plate off, or you can put the plate back on and just hold it in position while you work the other speeds. A tip for replacing the speed plate - put it on in approximately the correct position then give it a gentle turn anticlockwise till you hear a click as the pins drop into their respective slots.
If this is the first time you've been inside a leaf shutter have a look at Daniel Mitchel's site
http://daniel.mitchell.name/cameras/index.html
and scroll down the index on the left till you come to 'shutters' and have a look at 'Prontor SVS', which is an updated version of your Prontor SV.
Daniel gives a detailed, illustrated, blow-by-blow account of stripping a Prontor completely to pieces for cleaning (the 'long way').
Have fun!
Regards,
Peter |
Alex
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 01, 2005 - 06:48 am: |
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Absolutely superb, Peter, thank you very much, you've explained exactly what I'm experiencing with this Ikonta's shutter. I can see the 'damp' on the shutter blades (and on the inside lens surface) when I flush with naptha, and when it dries out, I can see slight smearing still on the blades, echoing exactly your explanation. I haven't disassembled the shutter at all, actually, I've never disassembled a shutter before. The most I've done in the past with similar folders is remove front and rear lens elements for cleaning and 'de-clouding'.
Looking inside the camera I can see a ring with two notches at opposite ends, which I guess holds the rear lens element in place. Slightly forward of this (towards the front of the camera) is a larger collar with four equi-spaced notches, and I'm wondering if this is what holds the shutter assembly onto the plate the front of the bellows is attached to. I don't see any other obvious way of detaching the shutter housing from the camera. Am I on the right lines? |
Winfried
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 01, 2005 - 06:59 am: |
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Yes, you are. You should keep to the outermost ring you can see from the rear (probably the one with four notches).
BTW I made similar experience with Prontor shutters. Washing the blades from outside sometimes does not do the trick. I have seen Prontor (and other) shutters where the focussing helical grease had migrated virtually everywhere, and I had to take off most of the inner shutter parts to clean the grease off the shutter bottom plate.
The best (and most difficult) method to clean the blades is to take off the aperture modul from the shutter. On many Prontor shutters one of the screws holding the aperture mechanism to the shutter also holds a tiny hairspring (Dave Mitchell mentions this on his fabulous page) which is not very easy to insert. But the results are rewarding, I never encountered any problems again with shutters cleaned like this. |
rick oleson
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 01, 2005 - 09:37 am: |
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Many people seem to have a misconception about cleaning parts with solvents: they think that the solvent should make the oils disappear, and if there's a residue left afterwards I keep hearing things like "Lighter Fluid Leaves A Residue".
The fact is that Lighter Fluid (or any other solvent) neither leaves nor removes a residue of oil. All it does is dissolve it. If a small amount of solvent is applied and allowed to evaporate, the oils that it dissolved will be left behind, wherever the solvent allowed them to flow while dissolved (this is sort of like the "bathtub ring" left in a tub after someone bathes). What you really need to do is to REMOVE the oils from the shutter.
As Winfried suggested above, there are basically 2 ways to accomplish this: the best, but the more difficult, is to remove the blades, ring and escapement from the shutter and wash them, wiping the blades and ring (and the races in the housing)dry afterwards with a clean cloth. The alternative is to bathe the shutter in a large volume of solvent. In this case, you will still have a film of oil everywhere in the shutter, but the more solvent (and time) you use, the more it will be diluted and the greater percentage of the oils will have found their way outside the shutter in the bath. It also leaves you with the problem of disposing of the solvent, which, contaminated now with oil from the shutter, is no longer useful for cleaning.
: ) = |
Alex
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 01, 2005 - 04:25 pm: |
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Gentlemen, you have collectively solved my problem. Or at least, it will be solved once I get the shutter off and the oil cleaned out. What Winfried says about displacing the focussing helical grease rings true - the focussing ring now turns incredibly freely, so although I may have overdone the lighter fluid treatment, I'd probably have to have gone for a thorough clean anyway. Now I just need to set aside a long evening or two and set about it.
I'm quite charmed by this little camera, the first 4.5x6cm I've ever had. It's only got the Novar lens, and the whole thing cost me just GBP14, but the Nettar I have with the Novar performs creditably well when stopped down, so I'm looking forward to pleasing results from this little beauty. |
Winfried
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 02, 2005 - 02:01 pm: |
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Yes, the Ikonta 6x4.5 with Novar lens is a nice performer. I have the prewar (520A) and postwar (521) version, the 520A with Compur shutter (which could almost be used to calibrate a shutter tester after cleaning the escapement) and the 521 with Prontor S. The Prontor made some trouble since 1/100 was far too slow, I corrected this by adjusting the 1/100 speed cam. Even the pre-war uncoated Novar performs surprisingly well except for severe backlight. I also have a folder with pre-war Xenar lens and I hardly can see any difference in sharpness between a pre-war Novar and the Xenar of similar vintage. |
Jon Flanders
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 07:21 pm: |
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I've cleaned several Yashica Lynx shutters without removing them from the camera. I take out the front lens element, drop some naptha on the blades, cock the shutter a few times, swab the blades dry with a q tip and repeat.
Then let the blades dry for a few hours, see if they still stick, if they do repeat the process until the blades are clean.
Might take a couple, three days, but it has worked for me. |
Winfried
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 11, 2005 - 04:43 am: |
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In most cases this procedure works. It is wise to let the shutter rest for a few days at least (I usually take a week or even longer) and then fire it at the top speed. If there are any signs of sluggishness (at 1/250 and above you should see a hardly noticeable movement of the blades if there is no direct light on them) clean again.
However, I have encountered shutters where this was not sufficient. Sometimes it takes less time to disassemble a shutter completely than trying to clean it from outside again and again. |
Michael Putos
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 11:42 am: |
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Can anyone steer me to a place that repairs older cameras, a Zeiss Ikon Contessa, in particular? I'm searching on behalf of my brother who does not have access to the Internet. I did some searches but only came up with some .UK sites that were selling the instruction manuals. |
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