| Author |
Message |
    
Stephen M
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 11:16 pm: | 
|
I have a Rolleicord II, I believe it is the b model type 3, with the bayonet mount only on the taking lens. I shot a roll of film using the sliding window on the bottom next to the tripod bracket and wound up getting only 8 shots on the negative with very wide spacing. I looked around the internet and found that the double arrows on the paper backing of the film should be aligned with red dots on the film gate, to align the film counter properly.
Unfortunately, probably due to age, I don't see any red dots or markers like this to align the film.
Anybody have any ideas approximately where the film should be aligned ?
Thank you. |
Mark Pearce
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 08:18 am: |
|
It's been a while since I owned a Rolleicord II, but I recall the reference marks being toward the top of the film gate.
The paint may still be there. Moisten a q-tip and scrub a bit. You should at least be able to find the two little depressions that the paint had filled.
Top |
Mike Kovacs
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 05:50 am: |
|
There are no start line dots on the red window models. According to Parker, the red window was deleted in favour of the dots starting with model III.
OK, question: are you using the red window to index the film? Its aligned with the 6x9 numbers on the paper so you would indeed get 8 shots if you did this.
The correct procedure is to use the red window to line-up frame #1, close the window, then engage the frame counter. I haven't used this type of Rolleicord, but there should be a button somewhere you can push, after which the frame counter will jump to one. Wind with the knob between shots until it stops. If its working correctly, the frame counter will count off properly spaced shots.
Hope this helps. |
RL
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 05:56 am: |
|
there are no marks, the film with markings on the paper backing to line up in the red window in the bottom is no longer made.
When the "0" is visible in the counter window the film spacing and counter mechanism are disabled, this allows you to roll up the film you have finished and load a fresh one.You wind the new film to where you assume the film starts (I put the arrows in the bottom of the film gate,closed the back, but cannot remember how many turns (3??) to the start of the film, then you reset the counter and film spacing mechanism by depressing both the windknobbutton and the little silver button at the same time, the counter then shows "1". |
Mike Kovacs
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 06:22 am: |
|
What film are you using RL? I've shot with 6x9 red window cameras as recently as last month!
Put several rolls through a few Ikoflex TLRs, which have the same red window as the old 'Cords. |
RL
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 06:44 am: |
|
Fuji reala 100 asa, the markings do not line up for 6x6.Maybe BW film has markings to match the window, had not thought of that. The camera shop where I buy my films informed me that 6x6 film with markings for the red window was only for BW, and colorfilm risks getting fogged if you use the red window as colorfilm is (obviously) sensitive to red light. They even told me that the more sensitive BW films risk fogging at the edges if you use the red window?. I have no experience with 6x9.
I am fortunate to also have both a Rolleiflex 3.5F and a Rolleicord Vb so I have not bothered to do work a lot with the Rolleicord II ( I just pulled all the leather off this weekend because the counter was stuck blocking the film advance and I needed to get into it) Even though the lenses are not coated it takes very nice pictures with color film. I have just started doing BW photography, perhaps those are properly marked for 6x6? The film is all at home so I cannot check it now. |
RL
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 12:07 pm: |
|
Mike, I stand corrected, you are right.
All 120 film is marked for at least the first exposure, for the distances of the spacing for the following exposures I cannot say.
The developed negatives of reala are spaced for 6x4,5 I suppose, as I get 12 exposures but the negative is marked 18 at the end of the strip.
The two balls on the leader are not to indicate the second exposure, as I now have found out, but the warning that 1 is next ( being too frugal does not always help).
If somebody could give some firsthand experience on the red window issue that would be nice, as I am seriously doubting that info also. |
Mike Kovacs
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 06:07 am: |
|
I've got a roll of Fuji Velvia in my 6x9 Ikonta 523/2 right now  I've shot it in my since-departed Moskva 5 as well.
6x9 numbers are closer to the edge so its theoretically possible for the light to get through the hole, around the paper to the edge of the film. 6x6 numbers are in the middle so fogging is less of an issue.
So the shop tells you that panchromatic B&W film isn't sensitive to red light? It most certainly is! I shoot with a red filter, how about you
Whether the windows leak or not can depend on the condition/design of the camera used. Cameras with covers for the red windows are safer for modern film. I don't take any special precautions other than to never let unshaded sunlight hit an open red window. I haven't had problems yet. |
RL
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 07:14 am: |
|
The Rolleicord II I have has the red window very close to the edge of the film. On the reala paper backing you can easily see the black line that is right on the edge of the film. This probably explains why Stephen got the spacing wrong. It has a cover for the window, but on the inside the film is not tight against the window nor is there a sign that there has ever been any material to make a light seal against the paper back of the film. There is actually a rib inside the back that does shield the roll from the window, but it is not really sealed.
If you open the window cover you are basically allowing light into the film compartment.
This does not really make sense to me, but I am told by another contributor to this forum this does not matter at the start of the film were the film is still tightly rolled and you are only very briefly setting the film to 1. The spacing mechanism is supposed to take care of the rest of the film and you should not need to open the window to space the frames.
I know on my II that if the counter is not set at 0 when loading film, it will not reset to 1 once you have loaded it.
I have to turn the film wheel in in the camera untill it goes past 12, simulating I have finished a roll of film, otherwise the spring that resets the counter and spacing mechanism at the start of the next film is not cocked and you can push the buttons all you want and it does not set to 1.
I have up to now only filled three BW films in my life, I have not gotten around to try anything involving filters of any kind.
Your Ikonta is probably designed to use the red window for spacing the frames, the rolleicord II as it has a spacing mechanism and a window that appears to line up with the wrong markings for 6x6 is probably not. |
Mike Kovacs
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 08:16 am: |
|
That's exactly what I meant - I think he spaced frames with the red window which is seeing the 6x9 numbers, hence 8 shots on a roll.
Rollei wanted the red window on the bottom so they set it up to see the 6x9 numbers. If you can imagine or have spare backing paper, you can see that the 6x9 number is still on the bottom whereas the 6x6 number is over the bottom of the 6x6 frame.
There is another reason too why they used 6x9 numbers. Rollei basically invented 6x6 format. When they started using 120 film for 12 6x6 shots, the film manufacturers did not have any numbers printed on the film for 6x6 or 6x4.5, only 6x9. This is also why you sometimes see old 6x4.5 camera with TWO red windows in the 6x9 postion, to wind 6x9 1/2 frames. |
RL
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 09:07 am: |
|
Mike, did the rolleicord III happen for doing away with the window as not to depend on the markings on the film, or for fear of exposing the film if the window were too be opened, or left open by accident?
If it is not shielded by the leather case the cover can easily be opened by rubbing the bottom of the camera against something and when carried suspended from the strap or just stood on the bottom this could go unnoticed for quite some time. I taped the window closed with black tape when I was using it.
I have shied away from cameras with red windows for this reason, the II being an exception as it was so ridiculously cheap I thought I could use it for parts if it turned out to be not usable with modern film.
You keep the cover closed all the time to only briefly open it in indirect light to advance the frame? Did you ever have the window stay open for whatever reason and spoil a film? |
Mike Kovacs
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 07:09 pm: |
|
Call it progress Same system on the III is used on the latest 2.8FX. |
Mark Pearce
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 05:38 am: |
|
Almost, anyway.
With the Rolleiflex from the Automat onwards you don't have to fool with reference marks at all; just thread the leader and crank 'til it stops.
Top |
rick
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 06:29 am: |
|
RL, have you personally experienced fogged film through a red window, or are you just taking the camera salesman's word that it's a problem? I've been shooting red-sensitive film in cameras with red windows since the 1970s, and it just hasn't been a problem. |
Mike Kovacs
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 06:38 am: |
|
Mark - when it works, I agree 100%. The automat loading system was even translated into the SL66 magazines. I think that was its last new use. |
RL
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 06:43 am: |
|
Rick,I was trusting the salesperson. I am glad to hear it is not an issue. |
Stephen M
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 01:30 pm: |
|
Its been a while since I checked my post, but I really appreciate all the feedback.
I did use Fuji Reala 100 film in my Rolleicord II, when I used the sliding window method starting on #1. The reason I used this was that I couldn't get the film counter to work. After each exposure I would wind on to the next number on the film backing.
I scanned the negatives to my computer and the results were excellent with no light leaks (I made sure I was shaded when the window cover was open).
I will shoot another roll and see what happens.
Thanks again ! |
