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david wood
Tinkerer
Username: Camerabythebay
Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 01:21 pm: | 
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I have an f-1 new model, that won't fire when the lens is in the auto position. It doesn't matter which lens I put on it, it acts the same. I can't figure it out. Any ideas?
Thanks. Dave |
richard a oleson
Tinkerer
Username: Rick_oleson
Post Number: 39
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, August 25, 2006 - 06:09 pm: |
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Maybe. If you remove the lens and look at the 3:00 position (your right, the camera's left) side inside the mount, you should see a lever that moves vertically. Normally this parks at the top of its travel. If this lever is somehow jammed at the bottom, it won't keep the shutter from firing when the lens is on a manual aperture setting, but if the lens is on AUTO this lever couples to the mirror mechanism and jamming it would block shutter operation.
If this lever was jammed like that, you should also see incorrect meter readings when on manual. |
david wood
Tinkerer
Username: Camerabythebay
Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 03:20 pm: |
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Thanks for the thought but the lever isn't stuck. I have 2 bodies, when I open the shutter and watch the lens go on from the back, I see no difference in any of the levers as I install the lens. You're right about the meter though, the bad camera is off by about a stop. Anyway, thanks again. dave |
richard a oleson
Tinkerer
Username: Rick_oleson
Post Number: 41
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 03:23 pm: |
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do the levers in both bodies look the same when you just look in from the front with no lens on? |
david wood
Tinkerer
Username: Camerabythebay
Post Number: 3
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 03:46 pm: |
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Yes, exactly. If I back the lens off just barely from clicking in, (less than a mm), it fires as normal. |
Don Coppola
Tinkerer
Username: Don
Post Number: 9
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 06:30 pm: |
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Maybe the maximum aperture correction pin in the lower right corner (looking from the front)is slightly out of adj. |
Glenn Middleton
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 28
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, August 26, 2006 - 08:46 pm: |
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Check that the E-M switch pin (8.00 position) on the mount is free and correctly set. Make sure the mount is not damaged in anyway around the hole. When lens is set to auto a corresponding pin in lens mount enters this hole.
Your comments that camera works properly when you 'back off' the lens, would indicate that the lens pin may be binding in the camera mount hole. Is the camera mount worn or damaged? The E-M switch is the only item that is lens position critical. The other levers will still function if you back off the lens quite a bit. Clearly on a sound mount you can only do this if you hold down the lock catch, so the information is of academic interest only. |
david wood
Tinkerer
Username: Camerabythebay
Post Number: 5
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 05:56 pm: |
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You are on the mark. With the lens off and the
E-M switch pin pushed in, the shutter won't fire. When it's backed out just past that first catch, the shutter fires. The pin is stiffer than the one on my other camera. With the lens on, as I move the ring away from the auto position and retract the pin, the shutter fires.
So you happen to know if setting the pin depth is difficult? Is that what I need to do? I can't believe the precision in that camera and lens, that pin is about the diameter of a pin and it has to line up with another pin sized hole in the lens. Thanks. dave |
Glenn Middleton
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 30
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 08:43 pm: |
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Remove the front plate and then remove the mount. The actuating pin is just held by the mount, so can remain on camera or be stuck in mount. Clean up the pin and the hole, make sure the pin is free. Carefully polish the pin if required and make sure the small diameter end is not burred. I find a wooden tooth pick is great for cleaning fine holes.
I do not think you will have to reset the switch position as I guess switch is original. However if the F1-n is like all the other models (A, T and old F), the switch is operated by a pivoted lever that the pin pushes. Very gently test how freely the lever moves, the lever pivot is mentioned on the lube diagram/schedule - relube is a major stripdown to remove mirror box. You may only be able to push a fine screwdriver into the hole the large end of pin enters. I am basing this on A1 and the original F; I have never had to remove the mount on your model, only replaced wind lever.
Hope this is some help. Glenn. |
Doug Wilson
Tinkerer
Username: Loosecanon
Post Number: 6
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 27, 2006 - 10:19 pm: |
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This may be a real stupid question but why would you set the lens for automatic aperture on an all manual camera? Does the New F-1 have a program mode that I'm not aware of? I've only had experience with the F-1 and the so called F-1n. |
Ben Hutcherson
Tinkerer
Username: Ben_hutcherson
Post Number: 7
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 10:14 am: |
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The old F-1 could have shutter priority auto exposure by attaching a Servo Finder EE. The new F-1 could have it by installing a motor drive, as well as aperture priority AE by using the AE finder FN. |
Doug Wilson
Tinkerer
Username: Loosecanon
Post Number: 7
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 06:05 pm: |
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Ah, thank you for the enlightenment, Ben. So far, the only attachment I have aquired for my F-1 is a flash coupler. I've seen the Servo Finder, booster, view-finder attachments, etc., on eBay, et. al., but have yet to find a reason to justify their expense! |
Ben Hutcherson
Tinkerer
Username: Ben_hutcherson
Post Number: 8
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 07:27 pm: |
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Doug,
Glad I could help.
By the way, there were a handful of specialty finders for the F-1. The other big boxy one that looks a lot like the Servo EE finder is the booster T finder, which boosts the low light sensitivity to EV -3.5 and offers time shutter speeds out to 8 seconds.
There's also a waist level finder, which is really just a pop-up hood to guard the top of the focusing screen and with a built in magnifier. Then there's the speed finder, which acts a lot like the LCD screens on digital cameras. I think that there might have also been a waist level finder that offered laterally corrected viewing. |
Camerabythebay
Tinkerer
Username: Camerabythebay
Post Number: 6
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 01:15 pm: |
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Glenn-
This really has me baffled. I rmoved the front plate and the mount, as you said. I cleaned ut the hole, and polished the pin.
Looking at the camera, when I install the mount, the shutter will work when only the top left and bottom right mount screws are installed. If I install either or both of the other (smaller) screws, it won't work. I tried it with installing the other two screws, top right and bottom left, it won't work. It will only work with only those 2 screws installed.
I'm guessing that either of those other 2 screws throws it out of alignment and tightens up the pin. Maybe I need to hog those two holes out a bit, but just by my feel, it doesn't appear to be the case. I'm tempted to leave those 2 screw out, but the mount is loose without them and I think it would create problems down the line.
Anyway, I can't come up with an explanation. Thanks. dave |
Camerabythebay
Tinkerer
Username: Camerabythebay
Post Number: 7
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 01:45 pm: |
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I install the 2 larger screws,(top left and bottom right looking at the camera).
Then I install the other 2 screws but only screw them in halfway, the shutter works. If I screw the down any further it doesn't. They don't have to be all the way down for the shutter not to work, it seems that if the bottom of the screw is touching the countersunk hole, no matter how loose, it won't work. Only when the bottom of the screw is not touching the top of the mount will it work. I don't see any reason for this. It's driving me nuts. dave |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 35
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, August 31, 2006 - 08:28 pm: |
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To guarantee lens register, the F-1 body and mirror box are machined as a complete unit. This ensures no shims are needed on factory assembled bodies and the face for the mount is flat and parallel. Replacement mirror boxes are machined a few thou thinner and thus need shimming up to exact register dimension.
Do you have access to a surface plate? A piece of 1/4" float plate glass will do at a pinch. Test the flatness of the rear face of the actual mount first.
One concern I have, is your comment that with the two larger screws installed, the mount is loose. On all my various bodies, inserting diametrically opposite screws and tightening down will give a secure mount.
Am I right in assuming that inserting just the smaller screws (top rt, bottom lt) and tightening up, stops the shutter working? Gently probe these two holes to make sure the screws are not bottoming on something - ie plenty of clearance and screws will insert all the way in by finger pressure (do this without mount in place).
The rear body/mirrorbox is a rigid assembly and impossible to distort, you would need to wreck the camera. However; if you have a body with loose mount screws that has a long / heavy lens attached, it is just possible to distort the mount if you lift the combination by the body alone.
The puzzle to me is the looseness of the short screws. To distort the mount requires some force, hence my wondering about the short screws binding on some internal item.
I have a number of FD mounts, so if you want another spare or two to try send me your address. I await your findings. |
