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Luizfrds
Tinkerer
Username: Luizfrds
Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 11, 2010 - 09:11 pm: | 
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Hello!
I'm started a almost impossible work to bring my Meopta Flexaret IV back to life, was given to me by my father.
The Problems:
- it was being used as decorative in a Kitchen, so LOTS ( not kidding ) of grease on it.
- NOTHING works
- Everything is stiff
- I never done this before
- I KNOW NOTHING about Prontor-SVS Mechanism, even the basics like, how to operate it...
- Can't find this camera manual
The Goods:
- I'm really focused
- I take lots of pictures before disassembling
- I'm really carefull
- I'm not alone (I have this forum :D )
- Internet?!
Why to do IT?
Yes there are lots of working TLRs on Ebay, the prices aren't bad... But they are not a challenge, and have no emotional value, i see this camera since i was a little kid, and actually this camera had a great weight in my love for photo and clockwork mechanics, i have lots of respect for this piece, and more. IF i could make it work, taking every photo will be more fun!
TILL NOW I KNOW:
- Coking mechanism disables alone without the operation of the Release Lever
- Winding Mechanism is completely Not functional, as the film Frame Indicator.
- Release Lever is locked, is stucked
- Shutter Speed Dial is Stucked in 1/300
- Shutter otherwise looks like to working right... it really looks 1/300... not shure...
- Aperture control... Stucked...
- Focus Lever, working but not focus on Infinite, The metal front plate has some deformation which make impossible to reach this focus... dont looks serious problem
- I have a tiny brokent Screw... i really have no idea to how remove it
- The Overal stetics is in very bad shape ( really? )
- The lens have a coat of grease...
- In the viewfinder have a axle that rusted A LOT, and have spoiled the top portion of the viewfinder, but no much
- Viewfinder is very Dim, but still usable, with a small amount of work, and a good light source you can focus.
 
So... what you think? i will keep posting every time i can make anything works! any progress or doubt i will be here!!
I will be happy with any sugestion! |
Luizfrds
Tinkerer
Username: Luizfrds
Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 11, 2010 - 10:45 pm: |
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News!
The first and most easy part (i think) have been fixed!!!!
The Shutter / Release Lever / Film Position / Winding Mechanism!
This camera have a protection to avoid the two exposure of the film, it locks the Winding Knob and the Release Lever
There were several problems:
- There was a Spring which was out of its place, which caused the mechanism never unlocks Releaser Lever and Never locks the Winding Knob
- The Mechanism is activated by the film in a metal barrel inside of the camera, by contact, when the Winding Knob turns, it turns to the Movie and this Barrel, which is conected with a small cog ( The Cog is in Bottom Right ), and make ALL the system works...
- The Metal Barrel was complete STUCK! needed to get removed an removed a small amount of rust, and after a few minutes, it is running almost smooth, probabily i will disable it again in the future to improve its performance
- The Mechanism with locks the Winding Reel is the same that unlocks the Release Lever, and both are activated by an "arm" (the arm is under the 0 -> Zero ), but this arm was with its spring very weak, so i need to open a bit a small "ear" in one of the arms ( the botton left arm in the photo )
TA-DAH! Works very fine for now! needs futher testing... but something is working! PROGRESS!
 |
David_nebenzahl
Tinkerer
Username: David_nebenzahl
Post Number: 49
Registered: 12-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 11, 2010 - 11:05 pm: |
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Mazeltov (in other words, congratulations). You'll become a real camera-fixer yet.
I guess the moral of this story is, if one can ever prevent someone from putting a camera in a kitchen as decoration, one should do it! |
Harryhaddock
Tinkerer
Username: Harryhaddock
Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 12, 2010 - 02:33 am: |
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Luizfrds if you figure out how to get the front housing off please let me know! |
Luizfrds
Tinkerer
Username: Luizfrds
Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 12, 2010 - 03:31 am: |
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David_nebenzahl, could be worse... a few years (5 or 6, maybe more) ago, my father gave to me, and I put it as decorative element in my bedroom ( a way better place to store it... )...
about it being in the kitchen... to late to cry now...
I started to study photo and it gave me a amount of interest to know how this camera photos would feel. So i started this project...
Now the next step is to open the objectives / shutter mechanism, and it is total new grounds to me... |
Luizfrds
Tinkerer
Username: Luizfrds
Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 04:37 am: |
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Harryhaddock, How to Disassembly Meopta Flexaret IV:
Easy Right? |
Luizfrds
Tinkerer
Username: Luizfrds
Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 04:56 am: |
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I'm Here to Show some Progress in the repair of this beauty:
 
I had done a fast cleanup just to see the diference of the Viewfinder, and it is AMAZING, you can even adjust the focus in the viewfinder, it is passing twice amount of light before the clean up, and things like this make me feel keep going with this project!
I needed to remove The PRONTOR-SVS mechanism from the face of the body, so i need to do a lens remover tool (i really don't know the exact name) , it is made of a big plier that I modified in the Oven
AND THE REASON OF THIS POST, THE PRONTOR-SVS READY TO START THE DISASSEMBLY!!!!!! IT's HAPPENING!
I finish this post with a question for the guys with experience on this... the lens are in BAD shape, and both of them have a great quantity of grease on each, and in the Shutter element, is for shure that have grease in front and rear element, so, WHAT IS THE SAFEST WAY TO CLEAN THIS MESS? |
Adrian
Tinkerer
Username: Adrian
Post Number: 275
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 06:40 am: |
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OK, here's how to get into a Prontor:
http://pheugo.com/cameras/index.php?page=prontor
Given how gungy yours is, I would be tempted to start by immersing it in naptha/lighter fluid (what it's called differs depending on where you are, but the brand you want is Ronsonol) - remembering that if it dissolves grease, anywhere where it dries will have that grease deposited back on it, so keep changing the fluid for fresh. Note - I haven't tried this myself - so wait, just in case someone has a good reason to say it's a bad idea.
Once you are in the shutter, you can clean individual parts as you get to them, and obviously can get at both sides.
As for the lenses... Again, wait for the experts, but I suspect that you are going to have to use Ronsonol on those to get the grease off before you can do anything else.
Good luck! |
Luizfrds
Tinkerer
Username: Luizfrds
Post Number: 6
Registered: 01-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 08:32 am: |
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Adrian,
Could be wrong... but lighter fluid will not damage the Shutter / Apperture blades?
What these blades are made?
What about Thinner?
I work with eletronics, and had done some radio restauration and used a LOT OF paint thinner... but i'm pretty shure it will remove more than the grease... and will damage the Shutter / Apperture blades, or i'm wrong? |
Adrian
Tinkerer
Username: Adrian
Post Number: 276
Registered: 08-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 09:21 am: |
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Lighter fluid shouldn't do any damage - the blades should be thin steel (well, metal, anyway). If you search the forum for "Naptha" or "naphtha" you'll see it being recommended regularly. It's a light petroleum distillate, and it evaporates to leave little or no oily residue, which is why it's so useful. I would be very cautious about paint thinners, especially if you don't know the formulation - they won't damage the blades themselves but if there are any plastic parts, or painted or coated parts, they might damage those.
I've cleaned a Prontor with Ronsonol, without problem, if that helps. |
David_nebenzahl
Tinkerer
Username: David_nebenzahl
Post Number: 54
Registered: 12-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 12:10 pm: |
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Yes, naphtha won't damage anything in a camera, including plastic, glass and fiber, which pretty much covers any materials found therein.
Do not confuse naphtha with stronger solvents, like acetone (lacquer thinner), benzene (gasoline), etc. These things will harm materials found in cameras (though none of them will harm metals, so it's OK to use them on assemblies where you are certain that are all metal, no plastic, paint, etc.).
So far as what products actually contain naphtha goes, yes, you can use Ronsonol, though it's a bit expensive. I prefer to pick up cans of charcoal starter fluid, which is much cheaper but the same stuff. You can sometimes buy cans of naphtha at a hardware or paint store.
By the way, paint thinners are perfectly safe to use as well. (Please don't confuse paint THINNER with paint STRIPPER, which is an entirely different animal!). These are also known as "mineral spirits" and are harmless to the materials found in cameras. (But read caveat above about using other kinds of solvents, which may not be safe.) |
Mndean
Tinkerer
Username: Mndean
Post Number: 177
Registered: 08-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 09:45 pm: |
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Agree with David's caveat, DO NOT USE acetone until you are sure what the part is made of. I would add, don't use gasoline at all, it can leave a varnish if it's even a bit old. I had an old camera which appeared to have a metal-bladed aperture. It was sticky and needed cleaning, so I dripped some acetone in there after removing the lens. The blades totally dissolved. I was thunderstruck. For years after, I wouldn't use anything stronger than anhydrous isopropyl alcohol in cleaning unless I could be 100% sure it was metal I was dealing with. BTW, thanks for the heads-up on the charcoal starter fluid, I have two gallons sitting in my garage that I have a use for now! |
Hanskerensky
Tinkerer
Username: Hanskerensky
Post Number: 16
Registered: 05-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 19, 2010 - 01:30 pm: |
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I have a set about the Prontor SVS on Flickr. It's from a Franka Solida II folder but maybe you can use the photos for reference :
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29504544@N08/sets/72157608683061389/
Good luck with your restoration ! |
Rick_oleson
Tinkerer
Username: Rick_oleson
Post Number: 1046
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 08:59 pm: |
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Naphtha is actually n-Nonane, if this helps find it. Nonane is one of the paraffin series, which includes butane, propane, paraffin wax and polyethylene plastic .... the molecules are polymers of methane, the difference from each to the next being how many repetitions of the methane unit are in a molecule. Nonane has 9, and it's a liquid at room temperature. Heptane, if you can find it, has similar solvent properties but is faster drying and comes only in a spray can. Both are good stuff. |
Luizfrds
Tinkerer
Username: Luizfrds
Post Number: 7
Registered: 01-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 09:27 am: |
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Hanskerensky, Thanks for the reference, i saw a Frank Solida II once, and they have some things in common, great photos by the way i will put my work in progress too if somebody needs in future! actually i didn't see any PRONTOR-SVS for Flexaret IV (i see lotos of FLEXARET IVa or b but none just IV, which is mine )... i think its pretty rare, not shure...
And a let a question for you... do you know for shure what material are these blades made? Adrian in an post said these are made of steel, i think that is no problem just making shure! and what you used to clean the mechanism?
Rick_oleson, nice to know! i will search for this propertie, because it is beeing hard to find Ronsonol here in Brazil... but i can search for an nation equivalent! Thanks! |
David_nebenzahl
Tinkerer
Username: David_nebenzahl
Post Number: 105
Registered: 12-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 12:08 pm: |
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Forget Ronsonol; that's just a (North American?) trade name for lighter fluid.
Get lighter fluid. Either the little bottles for cigarette lighters, or the larger ones for starting charcoal (those are cheaper).
Or look for naphtha by name in a paint or hardware store. They still sell it here by that name, in quart or gallon cans. |
Rick_oleson
Tinkerer
Username: Rick_oleson
Post Number: 1048
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 06:43 pm: |
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I don't think the Naphtha name can be trusted in other countries, it's one of those words that means different things to different people. The brand names that are most common here are Ronsonol and Zippo fuels for old Zippo-style cigarette lighters, and Coleman fuel for camp stoves which is also the same chemical. It's called benzine in some countries, but benzine is another of those words with inexact or multiple meanings so that isn't always good enough either.
Directing people to the same chemical in other countries has been very frustrating because the words used are different in different places and don't always translate well. That's why I went all the way back to the chemical definition, perhaps it can be traced down accurately from there. |
David_nebenzahl
Tinkerer
Username: David_nebenzahl
Post Number: 107
Registered: 12-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 08:48 pm: |
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Right, and isn't benzene (as opposed to benzine) that nasty stuff that's in gasoline (US: petrol elsewhere)? I sure wouldn't want to use that stuff as a camera-cleaning solvent. |
Vinzenz
Tinkerer
Username: Vinzenz
Post Number: 30
Registered: 06-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 10:15 am: |
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Nice work in progress here!
I have cleaned and adjusted two Flexaret VI about two years ago. One had the Czech Metax shutter, the other one a Prontor SVS just like yours. They both function well again now.
I have taken a lot of pictures for the reassembly, which I could send you, should you need them.
I also ordered some spare parts from a very nice repairman in Slovakia. He had all the screws and bits missing from the winding mechanism. |
X8irob
Tinkerer
Username: X8irob
Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2010 - 02:22 pm: |
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hi guys!
i've just got a "new" flexaret IV but the sutter button is blocked!
what can i do? |
Jesanicholls
Tinkerer
Username: Jesanicholls
Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, March 18, 2010 - 11:31 am: |
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I know you all are talking about the Flex IV, but I just got a Flex III and am having some issues with the shutter. It seams to stick when firing in the lower 1 -1/25sec speeds. 50-300sec are fine. Do you think lubing up with some zippo fluid will make a difference? |
Luizfrds
Tinkerer
Username: Luizfrds
Post Number: 10
Registered: 01-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2010 - 10:24 am: |
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Vinzenz
Yes, i would like to see these photos of the reassembly that you took, and your contact in Slovakia, my Flexaret would love to heave new screws!
if you could send to me i will be very thankfull! |
Rodrigov
Tinkerer
Username: Rodrigov
Post Number: 1
Registered: 07-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2011 - 05:24 pm: |
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Oi Luiz, eu desmontei minha Flexaret IVa, se vc quiser ver umas fotos vá ao meu Flickr.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rodrigov/tags/flexaret/ |
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