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Thm655321
Tinkerer
Username: Thm655321
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 26, 2009 - 08:03 am: | 
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Hello everyone, new poster here.
I came across Dan Mitchell's site re: cleaning a Prontor-SVS and that ultimately led me to this forum where I thought I would ask a couple of questions. I did do a search here but did not find my answers.
I have inherited two Voigtlanders both with the Prontor-SVS shutters, one a 35mm Vito II a and the other a Perkeo IIIe. The Perkeo seems to function well, with the shutter rarely sticking, but the slower speeds are a bit too slow. The Vito on the other hand sticks often and the delayed action does not function. So I thought I would at least look at what it took to cleaning them myself if it is not an onerous task.
My first question is, if all I want to do is clean it (not take it apart), should I even consider attempting it myself or should I just send it out to a professional?
If I can attempt it myself, is it necessary to remove the shutter completely as Dan has done in the pictures on his site? If yes, is there an appropriate procedure for taking it off?
I don’t understand the term “flush cleaning”. How is that different from soaking the entire shutter? Can flush cleaning be done with the shutter still on the camera?
Last question is whether you can make any recommendations on what to use (lighter fluid, naptha or otherwise) to do the cleaning and what brands you might recommend.
Thanks in advance for helping someone new to this. |
Scott
Tinkerer
Username: Scott
Post Number: 51
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 26, 2009 - 09:23 am: |
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I have also looked at Mr. Mitchell's site, and there's a lot of good advice there, and excellent photos of the insides of shutters.
My assumption is that he may just enjoy the process of taking them completely apart down to removing and cleaning each individual shutter and aperture blade. And I'm sure it's a nice feeling to know that every single piece is perfectly clean. But you seldom have to go that far if you just want to get a sluggish shutter working again.
With "between the lens" leaf shutters, most of the problems will be related to too much friction on the blades themselves, rather than with any problem in the "clockwork" inside the shuter mechanism. The friction is usually due to oil getting on the blades. That's why naptha is so often used to clean the blades. To do it properly, you do have to remove at least the front part of the lens and sometimes also the rear part of the lens in order to get at the shutter blades. But taking out the lenses is usually not hard to do if you have some tiny screwdrivers.
"Flush" cleaning, I assume, is when someone tries to clean a shutter by squirting large amounts of solvent into it, usually without removing the shutter from the camera and without removing the lens glass. Probably makes the camera unusable until it is overhauled completely for cleaning.
I'd recommend not putting more than 3-4 drops of solvent on the blades at a time, and letting that evaporate before doing it again. Put 2-3 drops of solvent directly onto the closed blades, then turn the cameras this way and that, letting it run down into the part of the shutter that you can't see, then work the shutter a few times before it evaporates. Then, a couple more drops, and wipe the blades with a wad of soft paper in a tweezers, and blow out any debris. Don't let it run onto the rear lens element. Repeat a couple of times, and that usually does it. If it doesn't, then maybe the "dan mitchell" treatment is your only hope 
I use the lighter fluid that is sold for zippo-type cigarrette lighters, but I have heard that the stuff people squirt on a charcoal grill is the same thing. |
Marty
Tinkerer
Username: Marty
Post Number: 40
Registered: 11-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 26, 2009 - 10:55 am: |
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I usually use lighter fluid for cigarette lighters sold at the checkout counter in WalMart. I've never had much luck cleaning a shutter by just flooding it, but instead usually wind up taking it apart. As Scott pointed out, the most common problem is oil between the shutter blades.
I'm not nearly the repairman that most of the guys in here are though... I collect mainly century old stuff, and compared to the classic 35's, that's like timber framing a barn. If I had to get into the more modern stuff, I might try flooding it first. |
Ethostech
Tinkerer
Username: Ethostech
Post Number: 141
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2009 - 07:37 am: |
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I don't entirely agree with Scott. Although oil on the shutter blades is sometimes the cause of "tired shutter syndrome", mostly it is due the age congealment of the factory grease on the activator ring. And that would be why Dan Mitchell advocates as he does. It usually takes several overnight soakings and repeated procedure to get that stuff off the activator ring.
In the very worst cases the shutter blades and activator ring have to be removed.
But most shutter-drag malfunction is usually caused by accumulated muck in the mechanism - the escapements in particular, The three obvious cams will need a touch of grease but generally no oiling anywhere. The shutters run better dry.
The Japanese learned this early in their days of copying the German Compurs et al - and most Japanese "between lens shutters" are factory assembled dry - save for very light cam grease lubrication.
"Flood cleaning" (as with pure petroleum spirit) is where the removed and exposed shutter mechanism is is submersed and agitated until all gunk floats away. (Usually submersed for a couple of days) .
"Flush cleaning" is where the shutter remains on the camera but its mechanism exposed for flushing by applying petroleum spirit gently with a soft sable brush whilst titling the camera forward to avoid fluid seeping into the iris and shutter blades (and carrying debris into them.)
There are those whom in lieu of oiling, advocate a Flood Cleaning final rinse with a small amount of fine graphite powder suspended in the petroleum spirit. I have found such to be VERY BAD practice because for evermore you will be plagued by "little sparklers" on your lens glass optics. |
Scott
Tinkerer
Username: Scott
Post Number: 77
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, February 04, 2010 - 08:19 am: |
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True- although dirt or oil on the blades will cause a shutter to stick, the same on the acutator rings (which is actually what moves the blades) is probably more often the real cause of sticking shutter.
But of course you don't see those rings without completely disassembling a shutter. You do, however see the blades. And a few drops of naptha on the blades will usually (in my experience) be enough to also free up any oil-related friction on the actuator rings.
Sometimes a complete overhaul is necessary, but if I am giving advice to someone who has no intention of ever doing a complete overhaul, I would mention the blades, but probably not the rings. |
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