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Dennisdietz
Tinkerer
Username: Dennisdietz
Post Number: 25
Registered: 08-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 06:19 am: | 
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Hey all,
As the title says, I have a question about lube for older Nikkon/Nikkor lens focusing mechanisms. This is an area I have fought on three lenses now. I've searched this forum and spent some time in the world of google but no luck really.
So far I have tried AGS brand white lithium grease sold to me by a bike shop and used for shifter controls. Even a little in the focus is way to thick usually (worked fine for a Vivitar 28-90mm f/2.5-3.5 Sereis 1, but not for my nikkors). I also suspect it dries out rather quickly.
My most recent try used white lithuim grease in spray form. For that, I sprayed a thin layer onto a piece of aluminum foil and allowed it to off gas for a day before applying to the threads of a Nikkor P 180mm f/2.8 pre-AI. Worked wonderfully at the time and I thought I may have found a winner. A day later it is already stiffening up. I may have applied to to thick and not given it enough time for the solvent to gas off. The thickness I used was based off of its voscousity, which was "half" that of the non-spray white lithium I tried.
I've seen reference on these forums to silicone O ring grease and to blue di-electric paste. I am really interested in restoring a couple of my older nikkors to their buttery smooth, two finger turning focus. In all situations, I have completely disassembled the lens and cleaned the focus helicoids completely.
My issues seem to be with the bigger lenses, 300mm Nikkor H, 180mm Nikkor P, etc. Both of these will focus wonderfully when cleaned and still having a bit of naptha (lighter fluid) in the threads. The focus positively flies then.
Any thoughts, especially with specific brands of grease used successfully for Nikkor lenses? At this point, I feel I have looked a the package of every grease I can find locally but maybe something is hiding from me. I am also willing to have something shipped, which makes knowing a specific grease important.
An interesting story, I am a University student and one of my classes happens to be right next to the robotics lab. I stopped in there yesterday to ask them what types of grease they use, they apparently don't. All their parts come pre-lubed and they just assemble them. They do not fabricate a single part for their projects! This, btw, is UMass- a very good and big large school. Go figure.
Thanks all for your time. Since it looks like I will have to strip the 180mm again, this time I will photograph the process to share with others.
Best,
Dennis |
Tom_cheshire
Tinkerer
Username: Tom_cheshire
Post Number: 217
Registered: 04-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 09:25 am: |
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I believe bearing grease like is used on ball bearings would be good.
I am surprised by much of what you said specifically because if the threads were properly degreased it should not have a binding problem. Also lithium grease is a bit too "thin" to do a proper job. In any case I have not heard of lithium grease "drying out".
Next time, try rubbing alcohol (isopropyl) to clean the threads. |
Dennisdietz
Tinkerer
Username: Dennisdietz
Post Number: 26
Registered: 08-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 12:23 pm: |
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Tom,
Thanks for your response. The degreased threads did not bind, they simply did not run smooth as the friction caused by metal on metal was not conducive for "smoothness" of operation. IN this case, while I may not have described it well, the threads were free of all oil and grease when I was done. Naptha/lighter fluid is an excellent solvent for grease as both are petroleum based and both are non-polar substances. Alcohol, surprisingly, will work even though it is a polar substance, however I find alcohol most effective with oil and when the oil is sparing. I have successfully used isopropyl alcohol (rubing alcohol) to clean oily aperture blades. I find it works really well as it also helps remove any moisture also and drys very fast.
I've actually been finding lithium grease to be too thick, at least the particular types I have. I find that even if I "undercoat" the threads I will get stiffness, as the grease is a little thick and it fills in the threads to much. Maybe I should say it is too "sticky" but I feel the majority of the issue revolves around the viscousity of the material.
I'm not sure what you mean by "bearing grease". White lithium grease is frequently used to pack bearings in machinery (pseudo mechanic here). Some seems to be thicker, stickier or more viscous than others. Many seem to have a carrier solvent mixed in to make application easier or to allow penetration into moving parts. That makes the grease initially less thick, sticky or viscous but eventually that solvent, being volatile, evaporates.
Its interesting, playing with the lens now it seems less stiff than this morning. Maybe I am just less annoyed cause it was super smooth last night. Smooth is the wrong word, it is very smooth no, but is a little stiffer than I would like.
I would still love to hear more thoughts and experience,especially concerning specific brands of lubrication. I would like to find a better lube to use as I feel like this spray stuff will continue to thicken up. I'll certainly wait a little and report back with my findings.
Thanks again! |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 726
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 04:57 pm: |
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I have no specific information on Nikkor lenses; however, there is no such beast as a 'universal' grease that can be applied across the whole range of a manufacturer's lenses - very small increases in helical diameter and length can turn a grease that gives a silky finger tip feel on a 85mm/f2, into a wrist breaking wrestling match on a 180mm/f2.8!
You should always try and find the original lube specification and method of application. This is especially important when one is dealing with large diameter lenses or long helicals, it is then quite easy to find a modern equivalent with comparable viscosity/penetration values to start experimenting with. The actual method of application is also very important - in many original specifications you will find that very specific mixtures of greases are used. In some cases these 'mixtures' are actually blended together before application, in others the different greases are applied individually to specific areas of the helical.
I have always followed the 'find the original spec' route and then looked at what is available from specialised manufacturers, or trade suppliers. |
Dennisdietz
Tinkerer
Username: Dennisdietz
Post Number: 27
Registered: 08-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 05:00 pm: |
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Thanks for that Glenn. I sort of expected you would chime in here. I was also afraid you would say that Any suggestions for finding the "original blend" for these older lenses? |
Chiccolini
Tinkerer
Username: Chiccolini
Post Number: 70
Registered: 06-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 06:08 pm: |
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Nikon O-Ring grease from the Nikonos. |
Dennisdietz
Tinkerer
Username: Dennisdietz
Post Number: 28
Registered: 08-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 06:39 am: |
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Chiccolini,
Thanks for that recommendation. Someone else recommended a similar grease grease to me. Some googling suggests I could find it locally but it is also readily available online. I have not seen the specific Nikon/Nikonos grease anywhere but there are several brands available from major camera supply places and even on Amazon.com. These all seem to be used for underwater camera housings.
I need to place an amazon xmas order today so maybe I'll include a tube and give it a try. I'll certainly report back with my findings later.
Best,
Dennis |
Dennisdietz
Tinkerer
Username: Dennisdietz
Post Number: 29
Registered: 08-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 02, 2010 - 06:50 pm: |
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Update...
The Fantasea o-ring grease turned out to be way to thick, though it ended up un-wasted when I had to fix my washing machine.
I've let the lens set a while and when back to it today. The focus is still quite smooth. I do not feel it is any stiffer than when I started this thread and on re-evaluation, I am happy with the "stiffness". I can turn the ring with two fingers while mounted on the camera but not loose enough to creep and provides good positive resistance for focusing.
The spray white lithium (PB Blaster brand), seems to be the best solution I have used and seems perfectly good even on a bigger/heavy lens. I bet a shorter lens would be like buttered silk with this stuff.
I don't know if it will be consistent over the years, but its good so far.
Hope that will help someone and thanks to all for your help. If Anyone ever needs disassembly help with this lens, let me know. |
Cooltouch
Tinkerer
Username: Cooltouch
Post Number: 56
Registered: 01-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 02, 2010 - 07:11 pm: |
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To lube helical threads, for many years I have used a gray-colored molybdenum disulfide grease I bought at an auto parts store. I reckon this tub of it that I have is probably 20 years old or better, and the grease still shows no signs of deterioration due to age. |
Psurfer
Tinkerer
Username: Psurfer
Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 06:05 pm: |
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I don't know if this helps, but I once had a 300 Nikkor H lens, and as I recall, it shouldn't be All that easy to turn, anyway - say in comparison to a Nikkor 50mm.
It's a big motha' lens w/a slow smooth and deliberate focus action. Maybe yours is already there? |
Ethostech
Tinkerer
Username: Ethostech
Post Number: 146
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 20, 2010 - 06:48 am: |
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Scientific instrument makers or importers bring in Lozoid specialist greases from Germany. The market is for cameras and microscopes of all types. Lozoids are especially the focus of medical labs and universities - mainly for their microscopes.
A pack of 8 tubs of various greases - as complete with a detailed usage/suitability chart costs US$36 but one pack would last any camera serviceman a lifetime. The volume of each tub is approximately that of one third of an eggcup.
In particular I mention two of the Lozoid greases.
For fine helix 74075B (White) ... or:
80200/ 102 (White).
On Coarse helix. L2A (Yellow)
If helix has concentrics of fine and coarse
use the L2A on the coarse and 80200 /102 on the fine.
Hope this helps. |
Labcoatmedia
Tinkerer
Username: Labcoatmedia
Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 12:19 am: |
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I found some information on repair places, and they may have some of these maintenance equipment you would need. The article is really interesting as it talks about the search for finding a reliable repair place and how important it is to have one.
Check the article out: http://photobyjj.com/my-nikon-and-sony-repair-recomends/ |
Camera_recycler
Tinkerer
Username: Camera_recycler
Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2011
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2011 - 08:42 am: |
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Sorry to revive this old thread, but I thought this might be useful information to share.
I figured out where most of the original Nikkor greases come from: "Nippon Koyu limited" in Japan. They make a series of precision optical greases that are widely used in Nikkor lens manufacturing. It's a bit confusing as they also call their product NPC, which I believe is the anglicized version of the Nippon Koyu name.
In any case, NPC/Nippon Koyu make the series of greases that one often sees in Nikon lens repair manuals: FC-4, GE-7, GE-8, I-40 etc. If you see two letters, a hyphen and a number as the grease name in a Nikkor manual, it is almost certainly Nippon Koyu.
They also make the "Photolub" series, which has about fifteen variants.
It's sad that Nikon and Canon do not just stick to one or two greases! |
