| Author |
Message |
    
Socaljc
Tinkerer
Username: Socaljc
Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2010 - 06:03 pm: | 
|
My Fuji GX-617 recently has been giving me problems with advancing and frame counts. For example, the frame number dial gets stucked; frame advancing does not stop at the frame that it should stop at... I end up getting 2-3 photos per 120 roll instead of 4 frames per roll. It would not allow me to advnace forward when I press down the shutter... it feels stucked / sticky inside. These problem gets worse in cold weather...
All these issues started after a camera store repair person cleaned the whole advancing / frame count mechanism without regreasing it. I don't like their service so I've decided to do the regreasing myself.
I have taken apart this GX-617 and some other Fuji 6x7's a few times so I am familiar with how the advanace mechanism should work... This GX-617's gear is mechanically fine...I just need some tips on what oil / grease to use.
Should I use grease or runny gear oil? Do I apply small amount on metal parts or should I do it generously? How about those plastic / nylon gears? Should I lube them too?
It would be easier if you give me the name of the oil / grease since it will help me find it faster online.
Thank you!! |
Sevo
Tinkerer
Username: Sevo
Post Number: 66
Registered: 09-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 03:51 am: |
|
There is no rule of thumb to that - many parts in transport gears will need plain grease, but some will need a dampening grease, and others will need oil. It should not be too hard to locate a service manual for the GX-617, and that will tell you what belongs where. |
Socaljc
Tinkerer
Username: Socaljc
Post Number: 2
Registered: 05-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 05:32 am: |
|
I was having trouble getting one of those service manual so I end up getting one that is for other Fuji models. I will look into it and see if it is mentioned anywhere about greasing.
Any one else has experience with greasing transport? |
Mareklew
Tinkerer
Username: Mareklew
Post Number: 74
Registered: 03-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 06:36 am: |
|
A rule of thumb says, that pivots get oil, gears and sliders get grease - if they need it.
Take extreme care not to let any oil into any friction clutches (shall the camera have any).
Too little is most often better than too much. As for oil: it was enough before you saw the oil was there.
Marek |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 774
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 07:31 am: |
|
'. These problem gets worse in cold weather..'
JC, you have answered your own question in quoting that observation. For the above to happen it is obvious that the wrong grease or lubricant has been used, the 'stuck/sticky' observations also point to this conclusion.
Cameras that have been properly cleaned and then assembled dry will nearly always function in a proper manner initially - excessive noise and then wear will soon start to indicate the lack of lubrication. I have a vast experience of preparing various cameras for use in extreme low temperature test rigs - I only found four models that would not expose the required 20/30 exposures when in the fully unlubricated state.
Camera mechanisms jam up in the cold either due to dirt and old dried up lube residues, or from the wrong type of lubricant being used after a CLA - usually a far too viscous oil or heavy grease has been used.
You should work from the original Fuji lubricant specifications when trying to find a modern alternative, if one does this it is possible to find quite a range of suitable modern substitutes. |
Socaljc
Tinkerer
Username: Socaljc
Post Number: 3
Registered: 05-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2010 - 09:32 pm: |
|
Thank you for your help... I really appreciate it.
I just open the camera, took the transport out again and found some thick / glue like residues stick to some moving parts and hair springs. Now I know why the frame ocunt dial got stucked! I think the think gluy stuff is caused by dried up oil or mixture of oil and grease probably.
Is it safe if I put the whole transport into a watch / glasses untrasonic cleaner? What cleaning agent should I use? Denatured alcohol or Naphtha? Which one is stronger? Are both of them plastic / Nylon gear safe? Or just the good 'o rubbing alcohol.
I poured some rubbing alcohol on the thick residue and it looses up the mess immediately but once it dries up, it's still sticky unless I remove them first. That's why I am thinking about doing an untrasonic bath on the transport module.
BTW, is ultrasonic bath safe for springs / hair springs? I don't want to see a bunch of loose springs after I turn the cleaner on. Any advise? Thanks for the help again. |
Scott
Tinkerer
Username: Scott
Post Number: 103
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 10, 2010 - 04:25 pm: |
|
I've never seen a Fuji GX-617, but I say don't use alcohol at all. If I understand correctly, most alcohols contain at least a certain amount of water. Any water at all has the potential to lead to rust and corrosion. Better to use something like naptha which will evaporate completely.
Naptha wil not damage any plastics or nylons that I know about. |
Glenn
Tinkerer
Username: Glenn
Post Number: 776
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 03:29 am: |
|
Humidity and atmospheric moisture will cause far more 'corrosion' damage than an alcohol rinse used during a cleaning process. I always use pure laboratory grade ethyl alcohol for cleaning purposes purely because of its dewatering/drying properties. (See my post under Socaljc's ultrasonic bath query). |
Socaljc
Tinkerer
Username: Socaljc
Post Number: 6
Registered: 05-2010
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 - 10:30 am: |
|
thank you Scott and Glenn... I guess I will try Naphtha first. |
Fallisphoto
Tinkerer
Username: Fallisphoto
Post Number: 127
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 23, 2010 - 09:53 am: |
|
Scott, there are some plastics that naptha will damage, but you will never find them in cameras. Why? Because anything that naptha will damage will also be damaged by oil. |
Fallisphoto
Tinkerer
Username: Fallisphoto
Post Number: 128
Registered: 09-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 24, 2010 - 11:07 am: |
|
To go slightly off topic (just slightly), I got some whale oil a while back, from a dealer in Egypt, and I used it on a pre-war Bessa RF with a Compur shutter. Well, that turned out to be a bad idea. Worked fine for about two weeks but now it is sticking again and it is starting to stink. |
John_shriver
Tinkerer
Username: John_shriver
Post Number: 57
Registered: 12-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 24, 2010 - 06:56 pm: |
|
For plastic gears, be sure the grease is plastic compatible. At least the LaBelle line of lubricants (for the Model RR trade nominally), some are plastic-compatible, and some are only for metal gears. |
Alanstarkie2001
Tinkerer
Username: Alanstarkie2001
Post Number: 12
Registered: 09-2007
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, June 21, 2010 - 03:35 pm: |
|
I was reading some technical stuff about grease on Wikipedia (I know, I need to get out more). I learned that some prior to the use of teflon, molybdenum and lthium, binders often consisted of clay. As for oil - Radio Shack (Tandy in the UK) used to sell little clear oil pens with a syringe dropper type tip. The oil was a modern light Teflon based lubricant, ideal for getting into awkward places. |
Juliard1
Tinkerer
Username: Juliard1
Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2010 - 04:32 am: |
|
Hello, I am a Camera Technician and Mechanical Engineer and would like to comment on lubricants.
Many ordinary greases contain a thickener (like clay) and are unsuitable. Nye Lubricants make a range of damping gels etc.(Expensive). I normally use clear silicone grease and a light weight oil applied with a tiny syringe. Sewing Machine oil is normally about right but never use too much lubricant. You can also use watch oil by Mobius or Novostat (Swiss) but personally I don't like this oil; it is too expensive. Original Japanese grease does eventually dry out and leaves a greenish gunk behind. I use lighter fluid (naptha) or Isopropyl alchohol. For very stubbon greases sometimes you have to use thinners but use the minimum and be careful with plastic parts. Hope this helps !! |
